At first I liked DT specifically for ranged fights making it more dynamic and less monotonous, comparing to VT. Then I got to Damnation+ difficulties and was told I’m not supposed to spend ammunition on like 70-80% of foes I meet there… even when playing Veteran. 
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Not weapon swapping definitely, such talents should belong more to the center and right guy, they need it for their playstyle.
I’m not sure what do you mean, like shove and block is not that nessecary in DT like they are in V2. But you still use them occasionally. Melee has more techs, the fact balance is currently tuned so you just spam aoe and spray guns against meatwalls doesn’t change the fundamentals.
I mean that there’s nothing hard about picking blocking and picking targets.
You do, to not stuck in some obstacles or boxes, to vault on them during kite or just dodgin around cause bosses can’t do much around boxes.
Which is correct for general movement, but not the they melee wepon effectiveness exactly.
Vet doesn’t care too. Ogryn also. Flamer? Psyker staves?
Vet doesn’t care only with talent, which is wasted talent point. Flamer has short range. Psyker… well… Kinda doesn’t care but psyker is so fragile that risks of taking damage are kinda compensating for it.
No, lol. There is a visual effect when you hit some obstacles, but you can kill mobs through textures and walls. It’s a basic strat when holding houses for example.
Lol yes. Maybe they changed or disabled it(Or it’s just another bug they can’t fix) but what i said is definetly a thing. Or WAS a thing.
Those are exactly fundamentals design things. If some melee weapons were problematic to use in one corcumstanses but good in the other - it could be considered somewhat skillfun, difficult and interesting. But now it’s a simple mechanic, that barely has any depth.
just don’t pretend they take time to learn or understand.
then stop pretending that simplified melee where learining one or, at best, two combos is the deepest point you can get is something complex and skillful.
Plus, i don’t say that exactly shooting is deep. But everything around it makes it not less ‘deep’ as melee combat.
Like SOME weapons have techs like cutting reloading animation
Btw this is a bug that should be fixed.
And it doesn’t matter cause how toughness is forgiving
It does. Because you restore toughnesss on MELEE kill.
range spam, and especially aoe, flame spam.
Everything, except for the first one. No-ammo pickups, remember?
everything you stated is a rational and expected response to the hordes wiothout any other valid option to deal with them. You either blast them with grenades or spent next 10 minutes running around and bashing horde to death. And since not everyone wants to waste their time - you see this.
And minding people unhappy about people magdumping hordes - there are weapons liretally designed for this. Read the description of “Torrent” kerword.
Reccon is just a dumb weapon, laser beam, no recoil.
Lasguns generally shouldn’t have any recoil. It’s illigocal lore- and physic-wise. intantry autoguns do have recoil. nobody uses them. They idea to make recoils as something super-hard to shoot bots is generally stupid.
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Breacher - while shotgun is equiped you have +“x” TDR during sprint, or restore “x” toughness per 1 stamina lost.
There’s such career present in “Only War” TTRPG(RPG about imperial guard). This si a classe focused around explosives. Something like this would be cool to see.
Iirc there were rumors that new weapon for vet is planned… Hellgun, melta and long-las are barely an option since they are eith too OP or have no niche, but grenade launcher… It’s something they, basically, already have in the game and could easily new to vet.
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It’s not. Animation cancel exist in games since forever.
Again.
Range has no advanced techs and moves. It doesn’t matter how special attack on some tactical axe is viable currently or not, or Dclaw parry. The difference is you have all those advanced attacks and chains, and you can make them more important with balance tweaks. Guns have nothing inbuilt. I don’t know why are you going with “no you” type of stuff.
Yes, because melee implies you take hits both from melee and range enmies cause you are in close range. And in the current state you refill toughness with voc in case of vet.
They absolutely should, because weapon with no recoil feels bad. Lore wise 4 hobos can’t kill thousands of traitor guards. Like lore is a good inspiration and direction, but gameplay is more important.
That’s why it will stay arcady and simplistic, wich isn’t bad.
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It’s not. Animation cancel exist in games since forever.
It makes it an old bug. Nothing more xD
Range has no advanced techs and moves.
Again, there’s nothing ‘advanced’ nor ‘hard’ nor ‘complex’. Even in Vermintide there was only ONE weapon(Among all i remember) that acrually required something somewhat ‘advanced’ since it not into reqierd two button mashing but, at least, reseting combos as well to cycle reqired strikes.
The difference is you have all those advanced attacks and chains
and on ranged you have all those “Advanced” mechanics as suppression, positioning, etc, etc.
Yes, because melee implies you take hits both from melee and range enmies
No. I literally just pointe d out that enemies are protection you from ranged attacks. They only thing that can hit you through the horde is sniper(Easily dodgeable) and trapper(Same).
And in the current state you refill toughness with voc in case of vet.
This is a talent too, so it doesn’t contradicts my statement.
They absolutely should
They shouldn’t. Lasgun are literally laser pointer weapons. And if it feels bad for you - them take autoguns, duh.
Lore wise 4 hobos can’t kill thousands of traitor guards
You clearly aren’t familiar with warhammer lore. Because they are absolutely capable if ther they are named characters. And we ARE named characters.
That’s why it will stay arcady and simplistic
Just like entire combat system in darktide. Because you can’t make something complex AND fast-paced and adrenaline-filled.
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Ammo isn’t a problem in the base game at all. Havoc is another story, but high Havoc clearly caters to specific type of Tide players, not CoD enjoyers.
I could see Survivalist restoring more ammo to the vet only, not the whole team, but this would not help veteran build variety at all. It would create the same problem we have with the zealot tree where everyone goes into the Until Death → Benediction branch.
Maybe vet should have a new build-in (no talent cost) passive, something like “Resourceful” which would increase the value of ammo pick ups on vet? I would imagine Fully Loaded might already works like that?
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As a long time enjoyer of fps games, I strongly agree with the general sentiment here. Learning recoil patterns and weapons behaviour is a massive sale point for me when playing shooters, it gives me more replayability, as I have new guns to “learn”.
The problem is Fatshark lacks skills or intentionally poorly designed recoil patterns and general gun characteristics. A lot of weapons don’t even have basic iron sights. Lasgun recoil feels off in general, something like Kantrael Mk IIb Infantry Lasgun is totally unhinged, and feels better when shooting from the hip. Bolter and bolt pistol issues are legendary (where are those long promised fixes FS?). IAGs have better accuracy when shooting from the hip than braced autoguns etc.
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Lasgun recoil feels off
Lasgun should not have recoil in general. It’s a laser, damn. And it can easily be the unique feature of the weapon. I don’t say that ALL guns shouldn’t have one
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How about this, as a simple tweak to alleviate the ammo problem?
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What current (enhanced) Survivalist aura does (if you select the talent in the Tree) becomes the base bonus of the class that doesn’t go away regardless of your build - but only gives ammo to vet. Still any spec/elite kill counts, from all allies in coherency (and still with global CD of 5 seconds)
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The Survivalist aura you can pick in the Tree doubles the gains for Vet (so it’s 2 percent gain for them), and makes the base bonus (1 percent) available to the squad (so it works as before, from their point of view)
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In before some 40k nerds jump in and tell you the lore is actually conflicted about this. I personally don’t care that much, it would be nice to have some unique thing about weapons.
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Lore is conflicted indeed. I did some research. Gw can’t even clearly state that lasgun is.
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Never heard anyone complain about Zealot going through the game not using their ranged weapon. Why is it an issue for Veteran players to want to play ranged focused, on the supposedly ranged focused class in the same fashion?
I am so tired of having to play my Vet as discount Zealot, because Ranged becomes less and less viable the longer this game exists.
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Fun fact: Although massless, photons do have momentum. A lasgun should have non-zero amount of recoil. How much? IDK, I’m too lazy to do the math.
Modern powerful lasers have no recoil. Where’s this momentum then?
Maybe… It’s not big enough to even consider it?
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Unless his teammates literally shoot everything for him I never saw any Zealot going pure melee for the entire match, outside of challenge as I said before.
Also there are plenty of thing Vet can do that Zealot can’t, stop with the victimizing.
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Because they’re not sucking up all the ammo and fold as soon as enemies get in melee range.
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You can pretty much spam ammo in Auric as much as you want. Don’t ruin Havoc by letting everyone mag dump constantly.
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[quote=“Ashrad, post:36, topic:110902”]
Unless his teammates literally shoot everything for him I never saw any Zealot going pure melee for the entire match[/quote]
I’ve gone through Auric HIST with my Zealot using only Melee and the Knives.
Is that why you won’t see Veterans doing Ranged anymore? And everyone is doing Shout and Weapon Swap, meleeing and occassionally shooting the plasma gun or Revolver point blank?
You are part of the problem, as you obviously seem to be incapable of understanding that the desire for the ranged focused class to be ranged focused isn’t the desire to be a victim, but instead for the Class to actually function the way it should.
Yeah, the difference between a Class designed to be good at what it is meant to be and a Class that does not function the way it is meant to be.
If the Veteran were designed to be the ranged specialist, then none of what you just mentioned would be an issue.
For example, the Focused Marksman Keystone could give ammo (only to the Vet) on killing Elites. And all of the sudden you would solve the “sucking up all the ammo” issue.
It is a design issue with the current Veteran.
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Vet was never designed to be 100% ranged focused. You invented that.
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