Veteran Keystone

Hi, do there have any information on why Veteran is the only class without keystone skill?
Just wondering since all other 3 have it.

The devs toyed with weapon-specific keystones, but decided that was a bad idea for obvious reasons.

There’s more information on it in one of the recent announcements (talent deep dive maybe?)

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Thank you, Yes it was in the talent deep dive post.

Understand why it get remove, still weird that nothing was put back in as replacement and now the only class without keystone.

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I actually think that is why the bottom of the trees are so deep and full of filler nodes. When they took out the keystones they felt they needed to maintain how much it cost to get all the way down in order to prevent people from going too wide in the builds. They also wanted to prevent people from getting multiple bottom abilities, and instead of having each one lock the others they made it impossible to get multiples through cost alone.

I feel like their reasoning for removing them is a bit of a cop-out. So the originals were too weapon specific… why not add new ones in that aren’t? The trees were being developed, finding something doesn’t work and changing it to something that does should be part of that process.


They removed pigeon-holing weapon keystones and replaced them with…pigeon-holing not-keystones. Unless you’re running some type of autogun or lasgun the ammo node is almost required. Further, there’s the critical hit no ammo node that’s exclusive to las weapons. Honestly, they should have just made three keystones, one for lasguns, one for ballistics, and a third for special weapons like bolter/plasma/shotgun (you can debate if shotgun should just be under ballistics).


But that would mean keystones for ranged weapons only, which is counterproductive to work put into decoupling veteran from being ranged only class.

I don’t think any other class has universal ult modifications at bottom of their skill trees, so it’s kinda unfair to say nothing was put back.

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Then give one for Power Sword too!

Jokes aside I feel like there is too much melee focus on the veteran tree. We have left which should be ranged but instead, it’s Precision. Middle which is general, but actually mostly melee. We have Right which is also melee (Stacking +rending node for Recon).

There’s 6 nodes that have melee only on them. And all of them are on right side tree. So I have no clue how center tree is “mostly melee”.

It’s basically just lasguns. For every other ranged weapon type the ammo talents are basically mandatory, and even then you need to be conservative with your shots.

All that trash mincing with ranged weapons that’s been promised in the advertising just isn’t a thing now unless you’re using a lasgun.

VoC Middle Tree Vet works better going melee with a ranged weapon as a support, than going ranged. The current Vet skill tree doesn’t really support heavy ranged playstyle apart from the 3 working builds.

Psyker is currently 90% ranged and 10% melee. Non-Recon/Helbore vets are 40% ranged and 60% melee (or at least 50/50).

Even Loyal Protector Ogryns with Rumbler do more ranged play then Vet.

To be frank, why decouple them from their ranged weapon at all? Of all the classes in this game, the veteran is the one that should be most tied to their guns. The vet is a normal person, not a big strong ogryn, not a brain-melting psyker, he doesn’t even have the raw absolute faith of the zealot whose zeal either causes miracles or is at least totally unafraid to die for the emperor in melee.

Why decouple the normal guy from the one thing that makes them exceptional? You can still be good at melee without giving up being the ranged class, just have some nodes that lean you closer to being ranged-melee hybrid vs being ranged, or melee, but never really both.


I don’t know how could I agree as it is my generalist loadout where I am comfortable to use most weapon combinations at around 40/40/15/5 (melee/range/grenades/ult) ratio. That’s why I like it most of all changes.

I have no clue why you added these bits, while I wasn’t even talking about it so I’ll aknowldge that I am not aknowledging it. I’m no saying that Veteran Sharpshooter tree is good, IDGAF. You can request all the buffs for it for all I care.

And 110% dissapointment when they play like that.

Now having played both. And Adhesive buff is f-ing amazing. The statement though is bullcrap and overexagerations like that rather than proving your point make me want you to never achieve your goal.

Yeah… No, the “normal” person is the guy/gal that you kill in the hordes. It’s those blue shirts that were eaten by chaos spawn in cinematic.
You don’t get to be a veteran in 40k without extreme skill, tenacity AND luck.
There are no normal people, who survive Tertium suicide missions.

And 50% of the team’s damage!

I had 3 games so far with Loyal Protector rumbler Ogryns shooting their rumbler the whole game doing 800-1200 damage to elite groups.

Mind you there was Survivalist on the team in every one of those games, but I can’t even run bolter on the middle tree with Survivalist and not go into Orange semi-regularly with me getting the majority of the pickups (and let’s not even talk about plasma), while Rumbler Ogryn rarely dropped below 50%.

So maybe don’t play STG where the elite groups are superlarge and specials come every 2 seconds or IDK what are you doing differently, but I’ll assure you it isn’t bullcrap or overexaggeration.

WOAH! That’s such an original and impressive idea, that due to the fact we mow down hundreds of thousands of heretics we must be special! That is certainly not a gameplay decision to make this game in any way enjoyable!

I apologise for the snark. It’s late, but I think it illustrated my point in that yes, we mow down hordes but absolutely can be a normal person. I play a loose cannon vet who got pinched for complaining near the commissar. I am not special, I was just present at a few interesting events during my life. My greatest power is that I was, at one point, a guardsman. I’m as normal a guardsman as they come, barring providence.

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I wouldn’t mind two range based keystone, but keeping one more for mele or support. I like the guardsman kasarkrin rp but also enjoy being a sergent with chinsword and laspistol.

Maybe one for keystone that would provide bonus while aiming down, one for hipfire and one with aura bonus for example.

or one for automatic guns with more ammo efficiency, one for semi auto with more accuracy and weakspto bonus and one where killing in mele boost the next shot and vice versa. SO you can be in one style and quickly switch to deal big damage on a newcomer before reverting.


It’s up to 900 at epicentre (which is 4-6m diameter) * penetration * perk modifiers. From practice with mine I know that if I don’t land a headshot on a gunner, I gamble whether gunner dies. And I have pretty ok 535 Rumbler.

As for ammo, you’d have more damage pool with Boltgun than probably with most efficient Rumbler. At 100% ammo, 100% damage, 80% blast, you’d have 39k damage pool, if you have anything above 411 damage on your Boltgun, you have more of a damage pool.

Whether 100% damage buff for Rumbler is warranted, which I think it’s not would be off topic, so lets shelve that.

Apology not accepted. If you want to pretend to be “normal” delete your guardsman every time you die. Play Planetside 2 in the open, under Bastion shelling to see how normal guardsman fares.

39k? Wait you are calculating single target damage output for an AoE weapon? :rofl:

(400 direct+900 splash) * 30

To be fair, should be more than 900, but I don’t have access to correct number now.

I’m sorry for asking, but are you trolling or something? You know that your comparison is horrible right?

Or do you think I said Ogryn Rumbler does 800-1.2k damage to group as a whole? Because no, rumbler shoots into the group and I see elites taking 800-1200 each and chaff exploding, but you play Rumbler so you should know that.


It is, I’m not doing it properly, because I don’t have time to do it at work.