Marksmen’s Focus
Low Profile is pretty hilarious (Especially on a melee build), and no arguments with what you wrote.
I was thinking more in line with having “Camo Expert” effect with Volley Fire/Enemy highlights. Half of the fun with Executioner Stance is the Highlights, the other half was Sustained Fire.
*Pressing X to doubt * Literally just recorded you a mission of it. gonna upload it after editing, should be 2-3 hours
Fair enough man, good on you. All I was trying to say there was that just because you can do it it doesn’t mean others can, and should be at that level of skill if they decide to play with that kind of kit.
I play them nearly exclusively, and well enough to be able to carry a game if I get lucky to have teammates that know how to push and are running at least purples. I still think the skill floor on the marksman archetype is insane, more so if you get baited into using a low RoF weapon with the set up. Even if you avoid the trap and stick to automatics with reasonable recoil, the onboarding for newbs into the play-style is still unreasonably steep. Especially so after the recent AI director changes.
@Reginald If you’ve got the time and patience for it, I’d love to see you try a Marksman’s Focus + Executioner’s + Kant12/1a, HH, Helbore3 or Bolter build (any other talents are fair game as long as you take the noted). As I’ve noted previously I do know zealot, but I’m nowhere near at your or other main’s levels, and would love for a third party to weigh in on this theory of mine. Most of my time and effort is on vet, so it’s pretty obvious that I’m biased, and would love to see folk who are authoritative on other classes like you take a stab at this question.
Is ranged centric play (melee defensive) and builds with vet disproportionally harder relative to other possible builds, and also in comparison to ranged options of other classes, or am I just getting high off of my own farts here?
I will try executioners and marksmans again. I was trying to make a shotgun build last night for a commentor on a video of mine. I was trying to make the Lawbringer work because I rather like it on zealot, it hits adequate breakpoints as a zealot and it was fun and decent in patch 12 Vet and then not great in patch 13 until the patch 14 balance changes. I was running stealth and marksmans. I can’t tell what was or wasn’t working but it didn’t feel good in any game. Compare that to my ludicrous revolver build which runs executioners and focus and kills everything ever…just. dunno.
I have tried Executioner’s and Marksman’s focus builds using both the MG12 and MG1A and a Hellbore 2. I haven’t liked a single one of them with the exception of the Hellbore 2 which I preformed badly in ranged combat with despite having the mod for improved reticles so I could aim properly. I ended up spending half the game just memeing with the bayonette.
I have so far failed to make Marksman’s Focus work on a single build I have tried. Even if I can get and maintain stacks in a fight it never feels any more impactful than it does just shooting heads with executioners on. I cannot see any notable effect. For the shotgun the reload speed was nice but the damage output was still kinda bad. Oh and interesting note here: shotguns have bad interactions with marksmans focus. Even if I get a headshot and the headshot sound sometimes it doesn’t count it as a “headshot kill” maybe because some pellets hit the body. As a consequence otherwise easy headshots aren’t counting for building stacks. Oh and I died a bunch like a total jobber.
On shotguns, my experience lines up with yours, pure marksman builds don’t play nicely with them. The Kant7 needs a rework, and the Lawbringer needs breakpoint buffs. The only one that’s viable atm on vet Executioner’s builds, at least IMO, is the Agripinaa. Use it like a single shot gun with it’s slug alternate, here’s how I run it: Trench Sentry Guardsman - Darktide WH40k - Games Lantern
It probably needs work too anyways, the breakpoint margins on it are razor thin, and require you to minmax it with a godroll ontop of it. It’s pretty fun even now though.
If telepots videos are anything to go by, stealth and weapon specialist is where the lawbringer works.
But telepots is also a monster, so
Yeah, I wanted to use stealth and something other than WS to see if I could make marksman’s do…anything. I can’t make that keystone feel good. The other two are fine.
Haven’t bothered trying marksman focus yet, now that i think about it.
I just hate how squishy the vet is. Like i actually think all of you were wrong for wanting to nerf shout, lol.
As far as I’m aware no one credible wanted it, lmao.
Mostly agree on all but the Kant1a, -ish. The Kant12 either needs it’s weakpoint dmg bonuses cranked up, probably to the extent that it feels like it’s running an innate T2/3 deadly accurate, and have it’s recoil pattern brought down a bit. The Helbores are just useless with Executioner’s. To add insult to injury only the H3 works with Infiltrate and hybrid builds too, the 2 and 1 just don’t work anywhere else I’ve tried them in. It’s gotta be a godroll too, every point below 78 DMG, and 78 Stopping power will cost you a talent point to make up for missed breakpoints. Hybrid builds were nerfed when the keystone tree was introduced as the cherry on top too, they are still Auric viable but you gotta get extra sweaty with em now. This is what I run on my H3, it barely works, I still do well with it, though it’s most likely a meme build now. The changes lost me something like 3 to 5 points worth of leeway on it, I used to be able to run it as a half grenadier build with Low Profile + Overwatch with reasonable breakpoints to boot too. Krieg Sniper - Darktide WH40k - Games Lantern
The Kant4 and 1a are the best of the lasguns atm with the 1a being the top dog. The problem with them is that they barely work with other builds, and MF + Executioner’s is barely there for them, it’s the best option for them though. They’re in a weird spot where they’re objectively good firearms balance-wise but you need to bend over backwards to make the tree work for them, and you need to be willing to sweat buckets to make the most out of them mechanically. The payoff is meh though, so anyone trying to run MF + Executioner’s atm is better served going for autoguns instead. Here’s the set up for my K1a, it also works for the K4. Designated Marksman (Lasguns) - Darktide WH40k - Games Lantern
On MF + Executioner overall, the best I’ve been able to work out with them is to run it with the Columnus or Agrip IAGs. If it’s about feel, the Agrip is the big winner here once you flip MF on them, the difference is wild. Here’s the set up I got for it, it’s nearly identical to the one for the K1a with a few tweaks: Designated Marksman (Autogun) - Darktide WH40k - Games Lantern
@Overlord https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AV2hD5P2io there you go 
I’m pretty sure everyone wanted an option for toughness that wasn’t shouting and wasting around 23 points on your build getting to confirmed kill in the old system.
All we got was a better out for blood, and it cost us 30% restock from Confirmed…
I’ve been saying for a while MF doesn’t really give any real new breakpoints even at 15 stacks sometimes. Seems the entire keystone was built around the MK I which is the only one I’ve truly felt it on.
When you’re in the thick of things is when you want the stacks the most, and inversely when they’re the least likely to be there.
I hate weapons, and talents that are only good when things are going good.
Wish they just changed the thing to be you have stacks when you hit headshots and lose stacks when you miss.
That simple. It narrows the focus of the keystone to single fire weapons (which is far more thematic) since using a full auto will make you lose stacks more likely than not, and that way they can increase the finesse damage it gives without worrying too much about balance such as the MK V getting another huge dps boost.
Best part is you could also f*cking move in a game about moving.
Every time I try a new executioner’s + marksman’s build, I always end up at the same conclusion: the points that it takes to get down to and invest in the MF keystone would be better spent elsewhere. Having krak grenades on a 60s cooldown is stronger than the entirety of the MF keystone, and is two points out of the way. Having Tactical Awareness for permanent executioner’s uptime is another three points out of the way, and then Iron Will is another two points on top of that–and again, imo, grabbing these is stronger than the MF keystone.
Investing in MF means giving up one of these, and it just doesn’t seem worth it.
FFS, stop giving FS things to nerf. Inb4 Krak grenade, Demo Stockpile, Tactical Awareness, and Iron Will nerfs. . .
I tried most gun types with MF and Ex. stance.
And it feels like Infantry auto guns feels the best for that setup by far.
Haven’t played with them for a while so i can’t really tell if MF doing the work, or previous Buffs,
i missed.
On paper, they definitely have much more damage potential, compared to other guns,
due to high fineness and amount of crits.
Thus don’t get overshadowed by focus target as much.
Also it feels much easier to gain and maintain stacks compared to other guns.
That’s why i always go with 15 stacks rn.
I think it have to do with how big the damage gap between body shots and headshots is,
and high fire rate of the guns.
You basically can one headshot every trash mob, 1-3 headshots to kill specials and ranged elites.
and you shooting like +-800 rounds per minute, while penetrating multiple enemies.
Just by roughly shooting in the heads direction, you will naturally get headshot kills more often, than with other guns.
So, auto guns is cool and all.
But Mf should definitively provide more benefits for other guns, especially the “Marksman” ones.
If not by damage then by utility.
As far as Executioner’s Stance builds go, I have had tremendous success with this one using a plasma gun. With the +30% Weakspot Damage, I can OTKO Crushers with minimal damage buffs on Damnation difficulty.
8 stacks of Focus Target is give or take overkill, but it’s there when you want to guarantee something dies. I’ve been swapping that point around on other things, like trying out Twinned Blast for better horde/emergency clear since it’s really good with frags.
It’s hard to say that it’s countering the general complaints of Executioner’s Stance builds, since it’s using both the plasma gun (a heavily buffed weapon) and not using Marksman’s Focus, which is I think ironically easier to use with high ROF weapons than actual marksman guns.
Eeeeh, yeah still disagree. That Autogun montage is tasty tho
