I can understand people who play Ranged focused builds on Veteran and get frustrated, especially if you have been playing since launch.
Me personally who have had the Veteran was my favorite class since launch but i rarely play it any more. And i think it has to do with the reason i played veteran to begin with was that the class revolved around being effective with firearms they still are but there is so much design decisions that makes it so tedious to play.
One example is the animations you have to get a sense of: recoil/swapping/ads/reloading/overheat-animations for a lot of weapons, and sure other classes has these as well, but when you are playing a ranged âsharpshooterâ build with the Helbore Lasgun, Vraks Headhunter etc. is that all these animations are not worth dealing with.
The reason i like the Plasma gun/Bolt gun is because even though they have the handling of an 1950âs car when they are ready to go they preform very well (more so the Plasma than the Bolter) and that is very satisfying. But that is not the case with the âlower tierâ guns for veteran not any more at least, its not worth it not for me.
And if you play a sharpshooter build on damnation/auric, youâre in for a challenge standing still and aiming weakspots without Infiltrate. Sure if you have a premade itâs easier since you can plan with your teammates.
But playing sharpshooter builds with randoms is more frustrating than fun, especially since Executionerâs Stance is so jank.
And i guess the majority of people who are disappointed with the Survivalist change is not the auric players (they probably saw it coming.)
Well tbh, Execstance is kinda meh compared to VoC even if youâre going for shooty build so you better just take VoC until FS decide to actually do something serious about it
But itâs still not really that underwhelming to the point of unusable though, if you set it up correctly the damage output can be pretty insane, just have to play a bit more conservatively since itâs not a clutch ability.
You have a shovel and an infantry lasgun. Canât get more basic guard than that.
Exec stance, no keystones, crits skills/blessings combined with shock trooper gives you fantastic uptime for engaging enemies in ranged. The shovel is really excellent for melee survivability and crowd control. Krak grenades get used for crushers. This is basically the pre-Patch 13 vet build and itâs totally solid IMHO.
When you say âas everâ what point in time do you compare Veteran to? Because the first tree Veteran has been receiving, unless i am mistaken, mostly nerfs starting from the class reworks patch.
Itâs not total and unusable garbage, none of the classes are unusable per say, itâs just what amount of effort or skill you need to show to be on part with other classes, and it happens to be that sharpshooter veteran requires most effort and rewards with least output in most situations.
Sharpshooter mains malding because their ââintended playstyleââ is literally the least compatible with the type of the game youâre playing. If youâre good enough you can still spend 80% of your time in executionerâs stance refreshing your ult with most of the weapons in the game while still moving around and swapping to melee from time to time. That ââgrunt fantasyââ just does not work in a 4 player horde shooter imo.
Besides, the newly buffed marksman focus is really easy to work with and maintaining high stacks for those one taps has never been easier and yet people will still complain that their ranged veteran is weak lol
I just played a match with a lasgun/shovel and all i did was reset my ult and tapped heads for crispy oneshots for the whole match, almost ran out of ammo on a damn lasgun and youâre telling me that veteran is trash. gtfo lol
Before and post Survivalist nerf ofc, since thatâs when the âVeteran is deathâ trend seem to started, but tbh itâs not the only time I guess. Veteran is also death when Power Sword got nerf or when the skill tree patch come (although tbh the super long ass Vet skill tree is pure BS, glad they shorten it)
The pre-skill tree Veteran far superior to other class so idk what to say, 70% extendable damage reduction on top of big damage boost is just plain stupid, I doubt FS would ever revert Veteran back to that state.
but itâs apparently an ideal Veteran to some people which is understandable since being powerful is obliviously very fun experience, albeit subjective.
I honestly doesnât feel like I have to put in more effort playing Vet compared to other class, even on sharpshooter build.
Maybe Iâm too used to playing Vet idk but I still breeze through mission and never think âEgh, it would be easier if I was playing Zealot/Psyker/Ogrynâ from begining to end.
I never feel like melee Vet is baby Zealot. Heck, I actually feel more comfortable on melee Vet since it have big damage/speed boost from WS and Agile Engagement while still having decent range damage and the comfort of VoC.
or compared to Ogryn, I much prefer the preciseness of Vetâs playstyle rather than the spray and pray in enemy general direction of Gunlugger.
but well, thatâs just my opinion. You can have yours.
Sorry. Just to recap the real âproblemâ here as itâs veering I think in to just general skill-issue complaints.
âTotal Garbageâ.
âUnplayableâ.
âNow a worse zealotâ.
âCanât be lasgun guard roleplayâ.
Have I misread the patch notes, because this was all I knew had changed?
Buff, buff, buff, buff, buff, buff, small ammo nerf.
So a small change to ammo regen has now made this character utterly unplayable from how it was 2 weeks ago? And those improvements made have absolutely no material benefit Iâm guessing.
Meanwhile Iâm seeing people say the lower left side of the tree is garbage, and yet it has +25% ammo and suppression immunity nodes down there that people are refusing to take while complaining about ammo and ammo efficiency?
Vet is way less effort than a Zealot. Vet you just play at distance, less risk and aim snap target to target and forgiving if you miss, just shoot again.
Zealot has role of moving to furthest enemies to stop their ranged attacks. Zipping in and out of close range, alot more movement and alot more dodging. Play Zealot for few missions then switch to Vet you feel it is a slower game. Zealot is higher risk but as result higher reward with bigger skill requirement than clicking heads with Vet.
The Vet has simply increased in risk more as now your melee is primary unless you run ammo efficient gun like lasgun with hundreds of ammo, so you would engage smaller hordes or let other classes take that role. The bigger the ammo reserve the more return on survivalist as based on percentage.
This isnât just a Vet nerf. This is a nerf to all classes if they build something too heavily ammo dependent.
Yeah Iâve probably played more Veteran than anything else since patch 13, through all the iterations thus far, and Vet really does not feel harder or less effective to me than other classes with the exception of Ogryn, who is just brain-dead compared to all other classes in general. Yes left tree is the weakest overall, and definitely more work if you commit to a MF build with anything other than IAG, and I would like to see that addressed but looking at the whole picture I think Vet has a lot going for it.
TBF at higher difficulties itâs definitely not a âsmallâ change, and Iâm inclined to agree with a shorter cooldown being in order, but yeah saying Vet relied on this to do work, or that itâs not even worth taking anymore (lol, lmao even) is definitely very dubious.
Iâd still prefer survivalist was just removed for passive Vet only ammo regen, and survivalist aura slot is replaced with like +20-30% finesse damage instead or something, but yeah Iâm still gonna be playing and enjoying Vet plenty after this patch. Honestly excited to give my goofy Exe + MF laspistol build another go post patch. Vet is fun
It is not a small change.
On the higher difficulties, it is not uncommon for a team to kill groups of 5 or more specials/elites within 5 seconds. In those situations, you only get 1/5 of the ammo now.
Most specials and elites do not show up one by one, to get killed with 5 sec delay in between.
I do not have actual stats, but i would expect that the pre nerf version of the aura would restore at least twice as much ammo throughout a mission (on high difficulties).
When it comes to a balance between âgoing inâ vs âgoing outâ, even a small change can make a big difference.
It will definitely make quite a difference for a bunch of weapons. Especially on the higher difficulties, where enemies usually come and go in groups.
Left tree is like trading survivability for more damage so if you could snowball hard with it, it become less work I think, but the problem is it not usually work that way in higher difficulty.
I always think if they buff its ease of use or defensive capability of Execstance a bit it would feel a lot better to use, Itâs probably the only skill without any clutch potential when you get into bad situation. Even Scrierâs gaze give toughness damage reduction and some toughness regen synergy while itâs active.
Thatâs also why I still mostly stick with VoC even if Iâm going for MF or sharpshooter build.
that causes the problems. and its FS fault. the Power Sword was broken for what? a year? so any melee was utterly trivial and the ammo economy has always been far too loose and the proof of that is the above quote.
the vets been top pick and strongest class since the start , the tree rework introduced a truly broken survivalist aura that not only broke the game for the vet but the whole team.
its easy to see why people donât get there is no ranged class no melee class there are 4 hybrids that do each part differently. its military training - speed and commitment- raw power- the weak physical strong warp. sure they may lean one way.
its a tricky thing to fix this far in they have the old remove the eggs from the cake after its baked problem.
Combination of marksmanâs focus and reseting executionerâs stance gives you so many oppurtunities to just wipe elite packs, shooters and specials with zero effort - theyâre literally highlighted for you to do so. I literally spent 80% of the match in executionerâs stance shooting everything in my way while hardly getting hit (toughness dr% AND situational awareness? lmao) If i can output short of a million damage on auric using a suppousedly âtrashâ build for a class, then itâs not a class problem, but a player problem.
no its a balance problem, i believe trash builds should be trash to give people the freedom to choose trash weapons and get good at it, in the current meta they are overperforming though
iâm aware the munitiorum mk III shovel and the kantrael mgA1 are overpowered in this current build, and i advocate for their nerf, it just makes no sense that they are this strong, they should be wet noodles in Heresy + (like they have been untill patch 13)
