the sharpshooter tree mixed with some mid tree is best for ammo efficiency using a hellbore or a lasgun. it is a range spec and it does what it does, from start of the match to the end its all about shooting.
problem is that lasguns are not appealing and nobody likes hellbore, they should just release a long lasgun with some armor penetration and call it a day.
the problem with hellbore is the hold and release trigger mechanism.
With helbore you should go for right side. Bayonet gets all the bonuses from melee nodes. Itâs actually really fun, bit on the weaker side, but if you want to cosplay itâs definitely the best way.
ES is the worst ability.
A barrel, a dog hugging another person, basically any kind of knockback will end Executioners. In most cases you can not influence getting knocked. Dodged a dog? Team mate caught it next to you. No ES for you. Barrel modifier? Good luck staying in ES any length of time. (Ogryns much better designed PBB does not suffer that weakness.)
Even if you can stay in ES all map long the benefits are pitiful compared to the offensive potential and safety Infiltrate or VoC hand you. The minor offensive benefits are not worth the sacrifice.
The target marking is even less valuable than the minor damage buffs. At some point there are so many outlines on the screen that it even becomes a hindrance. Special targets already glow brightly anyway.
The insta swap and the added stability are the only valuable part about the current ES.
Since when does ES have insta swap? Trying it with bolter or helbore I can definitely feel the pull out time.
Gun teleports into your hands if you activate exe with your melee out. This and the stability made me think it would be perfect for bolter builds but Iâm not quite good enough to play at the highest level without the VoC crutch.
Yeah, but you still canât shoot imminently with long pullout time weapons. Was this changed?
Iâm going to have to test that to be sure but I never noticed a delay after it was equipped. If youâre right that has to be a bug.
Itâs absolutely not. Still the class with too many useless nodes.
you can play the hellbore with any ability you use. i do not care about buffing my bajonet , i do care about my range damage output , thats why i use the left tree, also it provides infinite ammo. literally
I LOVE helbore. (as i repeated on this forum ad nauseam, some people may think im obsessed with it⌠Im notâŚmaybe)
And this is a big part of the reason why i love it.
The bayonet doesnt need any buffs, it already one-two hits most enemies. The only thing that would improve it is cleave which would turn it into insanely OP melee (with the right side talents) (tested when a certain melee blessing bug was around).
As @Snitch said, left side works best for helbore, as it should. (though my build also leaks into the bottom middle as well, for the toughness and also recently rending for the carapace)
Actually with the new brittleness blessing coming for helbore iâve been wondering if i should pick that over surgical or charge time for even better carapace damage.
Also as for the vet rework, it doesnt need one. What the class does need is some tweaks, like killzone and catch a breath talents, useless trash that never works above malice.
I dont even play with weapon specialist for the buffs i play with wp for the dodge distance. Also without wp you barely notice the swap speed difference cuz I play fine without it. I would say key stones arent even really necessary on vet tbh and sometimes i dont take them and play with other things just fine.
Honestly, Iâd describe Veteran as a scrambled tree. It has a ton of individually great ideas that are thrown to the far corners of the world. For example, grenade talents are spread between all 3 trees forâŚsome reason. 1 gameplay unlock requires something like 6 nodes (2 being âfreeâ) just to make leaning on grenades more useful.
Thatâs before factoring in that going down to even a single keystone is an extremely heavy commitment for no reason. It has a general vibe of weakshot + ranged in left, supporty middle, and hybridization right, but that right keystone is sad.
In contrast, Ogryn has trees very focused to a core idea, but unfortunately forcing the gameplay of heavy attack spam or ranged weapon spam with little variety outside those 2 specific playstyles. Zealot is a bit scattershot with ranged talents but mostly is hard to get around as its problem while having well defined and flexible build options. And Psyker has probably the best skill tree for enabling every possible playstyle you might want, with the only weirdness being that you donât have a true support keystone to backup an otherwise support middle tree. Anything wrong with Psyker is mostly a balance game as opposed to style or design.
Veteran stands out as being both incredibly scattershot and especially bloated while having a ton of individually great talents. 1% ammo return literally makes ammo trivial for everyone. Being able to 3d print grenades is huge. But all grenade talents are in 3 separate sides and you canât easily get all of them and also do keystones because the tree is just so horrifically bloated. The melee talents are all over the place while the ranged keystone punishes you for playing the game normally by soft-rooting you. Individually great ideas that seem to have not been playtested very well or had a ton of compromise injected into it at the expense of overall feel and design.
Considering the keystones werenât even ready when they first came out, itâs probably more true than not. The devs had issues with veteran, for whatever reason, and the tree shows it in just feeling incredibly rough. The power is there, but itâs raw.
Ogryn has my absolute least favourite tree. If I know your ult and your keystone I could guess every talent pick to within 3 points.
Least opportunity for variety and fewest synergies (not none but fewest).
Getting a point back from relentless could be pretty impactful with left side builds. The main other thing Iâd like for Exe stance is some kinda buff to bigger they are. I donât think getting refresh off Ogryn elites is enough to make it desirable, especially while itâs exclusive from counter fire, which has a much better impact on the vast majority of weapons.
Like a 20% damage increase against Ogryn elites and bosses to go with the Ogryn refresh would probably be about good to make it a competitive alternative to counter fire. I know thatâs just copy pasting bring it down over but considering the location of bring it down I donât think thatâs an issue.
You made a similar post in May and I had to read that other post today to see what you think is the problem with Veteran. If youâre going to make the same thread conceptually you should just start copypasting from your old thread. I didnât agree back then that vetâs tree being bloated is bad and I donât agree now for the exact same reason I said back then:
You also mentioned that you didnât think 1 grenade / minute is enough and that grenades were too weak from nerfs but from my time playing since Shredder is still amazing and Kraks are still very powerful. So I canât really know for sure what you want right now if you felt back then that vet doesnât have enough grenades. Additionally, I mentioned back then that having to grab specific things on the tree to do specific things is not bad in and of itself, itâs just a sunk cost for making the build work, but you seemed to think back then that veteran should be able to get even more of his benefits for less points. He already has amazing builds, why does he need more?
They buffed Exe Stance for the next patch, so no point bringing it up again, though you seemed insistent that Exe Stance needed Marksmanâs Focus in some way or it was just bad. But like I told you then, I was winning games with Exe Stance so I couldnât understand your perspective about it. What do you think is wrong with Veteran right now?
It seem you are replying to my old threads, although this âthreadâ is about the latest update, no need to mix old threads with new ones, there is plenty of posts other than mine, if you think the problem is with âmeâ.
That is outdated information into new posts, Krak got buffed nearly 20% Damage.
Pre-Nerf Krak= 13K
Nerf 7K
now 9.3K.
You can win games with 0 skill point selected, weapons , classes with you, players with you etc.
Why are you time traveling? when did i mention Exec Stance? please show me!
I never understood the idea of âPresentation Scopeâ but now i do, I think am going to add it every post.
The problem with Exa stance is basically two-fold.
So you basically play a glass cannon that is only glass and no cannon.
They really need to add some modifiers to it that does more than more targets turn yellow. Itâs very apparent that it needs that if you try to compare the ability to any other ability in the game.
Something like ranged TDR with Counter Fire and as you said an Ogryn+Boss damage boost to bigger they are.
On top of that the ability really, really, really needs a node with some defensive application. Either the old Sustained Fire (instant reload + 60% Tougness regain) to have some kind of reactive component to it, or something pre-emtive like how Infiltrate has 50% TDR node.
Getting relentless at base might open up something, but I donât think it will make it a good/competative pick outside boosting the power of the very few builds that would already go for it for pathing reasons (Only example I can think of is Recon).
Vet needs rework of the entire left-side keystone, because on auric if you stop moving = youâre dead. Also agree with Nish on Exe Stance buff, Stealh and VoC outclass it by a mile. Right now Exe Stance is basically an ultimate that helps with target priority only. They need to add a stacking damage buff for each enemy you kill during Exe Stance (or the longer you manage to maintain its effect).
They also need to buff most of Weapon Specialist talent nodes. The only one worth using is the ammo refill one, every other node is nearly useless, because there are much stronger talents elsewhere in the skilltree. On your toes is useless, especially if you use stealth or VOC, you donât need that much sustain in a non-Exe Stance build. 20% reload is useless when there are early talents which give 30% and 25%. Invigorated and Conditioning⌠even if you constantly use push attacks, youâll still run out of stamina quickly with these talents. Duck and Dive is the only stamina-related talent Vet needs.
And fix Vetâs auras already. Itâs okay for Survivalist to remain as is for auric balance purposes, but fix the other two atrocious picks. Give Vet 10% reload speed and 10% melee attack speed as auras. Or 10% weakspot hits damage. Or something thatâs actually useful like Psykerâs 10% CDR, 5% crit, Zealotâs Toughness reduction, Ogrynâs Heavy Attack damage and Toughness Replenishment.
Vet definitely needs a balance pass, that re-balances its Abilities.
The Stagger effect from VoC needs to go over to the Executionerâs Stance, and the Toughness regain from Stealth needs to go over to the Executionerâs Stance.
Nearly 45 seconds of low to no threat generation is enough for Infiltrate, and VoC doesnât need that strong stagger effect as they donât do anything that requires them to be standing still.
Executionerâs Stance on the other hand is supposed to start ranged fire, and it would definitely benefit from the ability to create breathing room to swap weapons from Melee on the higher difficulties⌠and a Toughness regain would allow them to actually tank some Ranged Damage when they step infront of a gunline to snipe them.
And VoC and Stealth are still super potent without these elements, especially compared to the Zealot equivalents.
I am excited to find out where they put the swap speed Talent, even though i feel like this will only further push the Veteran into the Discount Zealot role, and further erode the Veteranâs identity as the Ranged Specialist Class.
Vet is the most Feast or Famine class for me.
Unless you play Commanding Shout Melee / Infantry Autogun build of course. That one is a full team carry, clear Aurics while taking sub 100 damage buildâŚ
But all other Vet builds are the most dependent on having a good team. A good team with a ranged Vet using Plasma / Recon Las is amazing. The Vet can and will clear out all ranged enemies with ease if anyone bothers covering him from melee.
Otherwise heâs basically a wasted spot for what amounts to a weaker Zealot.
Same with a more melee focused stealthy build. Youâre basically just a worse Zealot.
Honestly I think Smoke and Frag grenades both need a buff. The Frag grenade radius is just too small for the piddling damage it does on max difficulty.
The Smoke Grenade needs to stop enemies using range through / inside it, AND slow enemy movement or attack speed or something. Give it some level of utility other than vague and unreliable line of sight.