Vet nerfed to the ground with new talent tree

The toughness recovery talents having values reduced but moved up earlier in the tree feels like a net neutral for me. +Ammo got moved 2 points up, yes, but it is still 16 talent points deep. That’s keystone level for all of the other archetypes. Suppresion immunity went from from 16 to 15.

All the enemy type damage nodes lowered both in value and in the position in the tree, and then for toughness you can only recover at best 65 of the 100 toughness that veteran lost to the talent tree, the tree is more heavily taxed and further to traverse to reach things compared to all the archetypes.

I’m saying there are nerfs, not saying if it was fair or not.

I don’t even want to tag those, i don’t want my team mates to steal my valuable special kills, my thougness regen is at stake

from what you say i think you just looked into the patch notes, but they made tons of other nerfs that were not mention, (to compensate for the immense buffs that those useless keystone give) i’ll just post the real patch notes here so you can see

they nerfed all the good perks, confirmed kill included, and buffed some filler ones to signal you they want you to pick the filler nodes

the +100 thougness was NOT op, especially considering that with all the nerfs of patch 13 i barely get to over 200 thougness even with the +100, that number was never the reason Voice of Command is so much better than the others

even with the +50 you have a (not mentioned) ablative to pretty much everything, pox bursters, snipers, and even crusher’s overhead, but only if your thoughness is at max, if you even take 1 damage then you take full damage of everything

i never mention the -50 thougness nerf because its a non issue, it changes literally nothing, maybe its even better because you don’t have that false feeling of invulnerability and maybe your team mates react better to threats, its only there to appease superficial players that get impressed about the stats

gunners where shredding trough that +100 just fine, even with iron will and all the rest, Voice of Command still remains the best ability of the game for me (so does Kruber Merc F in vermintide 2)


“SHARPshooter”, like a sharp blade, right? :sweat_smile:

Considering the Vet requires 2 more points than a Zealot to get keystones…

2 plus 2 equals… wait, hang on

2 minus 2 equals 0! Go math!

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This. All of vet’s toughness relies on last hits. Out for blood is general last hits. Confirmed kill is elites. The future functioning Exhilerating Takedown is headshot last hits. Its all centered on active management with nothing to just help him keep a little in the bank. Take a Breather is never available because enemies are always swarming out of doors and spawning behind you.


I hate to be that guy but if this is your take on Marksman’s focus I don’t think you play the game on Damn+. Its dead easy to maintain stacks of this and move while engaging.

Bruh one more node and you get reliable toughness gen anytime anyone kills that target.

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This is one of the incredibly confusing ‘perks’ for me.

In what universe do you have an enemy far enough away from you for those to proc? Playing Malice and below?


Only when it doesn’t matter basically. There’s some longer shooting sections on some maps but you can just be in coherency instead and save a talent point. I dunno, i need to test it for sure. But as has been pointed out 8m is a long way…


But it was, considering you can spam VoC and multiple VoC can stack.

I know they did, but tree structure changes kinda neutralized it and in case with bolter it’s a win situation even. So that’s why i don’t feel there is some nerf to the class overal, like my damage taken/damage dealt on maelstrom is the same after rework (so far) with builds i was playing before.

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for this sorry excuse of a perk?, No thanks

i value this more


I don’t know man, this alone for me is a nerf to the class overall


While objectively a nerf, the better part of the ability took only a minor hit - I’m surprised it didn’t happen sooner (I feel like it was far and away the strongest toughness talent ingame)

That’s the great thing about it. What’s not so great is that the bonus is what was ripped out of Takedown, and now you have to go pick that keystone with that node to get it back. Not to hit on the mid-build too much, I feel like that’s the only one that kinda actually works.

I don’t even know what to say. This take is so incredibly bad. It may be one of the worst takes I’ve seen in the last 15 minutes.

You can maintain a steady stream of 5-8 stacks of this buff in any damnation mission. constantly. This is the one keystone where you take literally the entire keystone and its modifiers. Every 2 seconds you can get one stack and usually it takes a second or two to kill the target. In my three games like this I averaged about 3 stacks before I applied each ping unless i was ping spamming. So lets just count this at miniumum:

That’s 15% toughness every couple of seconds and 15% stamina. And your target takes 12% extra damage and then as soon as it dies your team can get another 4.5% damage. But of course anyone who is not bad at the game will wait for their first target to take the full possible 8 stacks netting a 12% team damage buff as soon as the target dies and then literally you can just ping anything at any level of stacks and as long as it dies before the counter ticks down (eazpz) you will instantly refresh the timer on the 8 stacks (12% entire team damage buff). Literally this keystone is so incredibly strong and so easy to maintain you’d have to just not ping enemies for it to not work.


have you even tryed?

But now you can take CK, reloading speed, ammo node, anti-suppresion, survivalist, nade regen, VoC. So basically the only downside with bolter will be it’s swap speed, but not rly cause of VoC push. And don’t even need to use tag keystones if you don’t like that design.

Toughness/HP stats are fine too.


Maybe its a non issue to you because you play with friends, but for me that i solo play most i need every advantage i can get to carry those xbox players, even after patch 14 i struggled to do so

EDIT, where is your damage here? (wait 1 minut)

I either go here

or here

I need to do damage with something or i’m not happy, is it just me?

Didn’t they change this in patch 13? So it is just a straight 30% damage increase, and thats why something like the mk6 exists?

The kill for Toughness model works great until either the crap hits the fan, or you get substantially out damaged by your team.

Where did I write you cannot maintain stacks? I’m saying you are getting punished for movement, it’s a silly mechanic in my books, even if not as silly as Focus Fire.

No, Weakspot Damage still behaves the same; weakspot multipliers were increased in most weapons, improving the relative value of Weakspot Damage modifiers.

PS has about ~140 finesse on the powered attack on the first target (it has its own fall-off), it and WS damage are multiplicative with other boosts afaik. That with brutal momentum (and head height swings) is what enables you to oneshot several enemies with each swing like against bruisers and such.

PS gets a lot more out of weak spot damage than other weapons that don’t have that much finesse. It’s like a almost pure 20% damage bonus that goes into its own multiplicative bracket (together with BM weak spot bonus).