On paper Vet’s toughness gain options (exhilarating aside for now obviously) and TDR options seem good enough, I really think it’s mostly just suffering from total toughness pool being extra rough at the moment. A few extra points (or somewhat contracted tree) so you could throw out for blood into more builds would also go a long way here. If they’re gonna be this sparse with extra max toughness in the tree they should just give him like 25-30 extra toughness base.
The vast majoirty of the passives availble are solid, its the pathing thats the issue. Thats due to points or underpowered nodes getting in the way.
An easy way to fix this is to replace the pointless ones and buff some other ones.
Make smoke greneds tag enemies for a few seconds and include a bonus dmg against those tags. Which can linger for 2 seconds after killing said tag.
Issue with this, it may make Executioner stance less meaningful.
Well then buff Executioner stance by making your gun reload on use, reduce your threat, buff your teams toughtness damage reduction. With some extra passives that allow you to shoot threw your teammates.
Put more Toughness on the left side, as the idea is being stronger against range.
Also you could have some form of toughness recoup or even health recoup on damage taken on the right side. Leaning into the sly marbo playstyle of getting stuck in with the enemies. Call it vengence where you recoup 25% of hp and toughness from hits when striking back against said target.
Honestly you can do alot more creative things which doesnt cause vet to be broken, that makes the tree more impactful and helps your team at the same time.
My biggest gripe are with the POINTLESS stamina nodes and lack of surviability other than the Obvious Voc
hey, but remember when the vet had sustained fire? pepperidge farm remembers.
I sure as fück don’t remember these in the patch notes… I mean, did I miss something or were these just not written down?
Because, good lord, that’s an awful lot of rather consequential stuff to just get “overlooked” when composing patch notes…
Most of that stuff just was not mentioned.
The idea here was to have mostly the same power level as before keystones.
Too bad nobody told them that even after skill tree rework vets still get 30 skillpoints and not 50.
Are they?
When not playing VoC, I always have trouble triggering toughness when I actually need it. I swim in it when I gun down a wave of Ragers that never reach me, but getting hit by the fumes a Flamer breath in my face before dying is always a scramble.
Zealot just has to stay in melee and heavy attack for lots of toughness. Dome head unleashes his powers into meat and gets toughness. Ogryn exists and so does his toughness. Vets best toughness generation still being dependent on Elite or Special last hits is more like a win harder kind of toughness Talent, not one that gets you out of a messy spot. A problem that gets amplified with more Vets in a group.
Thats also the main reason why I run full health on Vet. Makes me able to survive those situations by just using my face as shield.
Honestly, I’m tired of these nerfs, most of the community does not know anything about balance and wants these nerfs, the other part of the community realizes this is unwanted but what is done is done.
Since launch I had nothing but bad experiences with this game, starting with ugly characters and now finally the last drop was killing entirely the veteran class.
I have never seen such pathetic childish whining in a game community as I have from vets since the tree rework. The tree itself is fine and the keystones are far better than most of the whiners make out (half of them haven’t even played with them given how many people are whining about not being able to move and other such nonsense).
Vets seem to want every single powerful node on the tree regardless of its impact on pathing and get upset when they can’t have it all (especially the nonsense about the ammo aura being the only viable one). All the other classes have to make pathing compromises, taking one of the less powerful auras or taking specific routes to get what they want. Vets are no different after the patch, but to read the forums and reddit you’d think the world was ending.
Truly pathetic. I thought the Aquilas pearl-clutching was bad, but this is a whole new level of entitlement. I sincerely hope the devs ignore all of it.
Your take would make sense to me if confirmed kill only gave you toughness on elite kill rather than continuing to regen it for 10 s after a kill. I don’t know what to tell you here because what you’ve described just isn’t my experience. I find I start killing elites and specials (they’re around constantly) and just keep killing them without much trouble keeping momentum while iron will/close order drill minimise any further damage I take.
Also out for blood is pretty damn good now, it triggers off anything, even bleed nades, it’s also very very noticeable when cutting down trash.
I’m not saying it’s as stupid easy as Ogryn but honestly find it easier to sustain toughness on Vet than on Zealot. Zealot requires you to kill specifically with heavy attacks, if I have a group of Ragers baring down on me while on low toughness being able to just pull out a brauto and regen a large portion of my bar while thinning the threat while backing away feels vastly safer and more flexible to me.
I already outlined what I think the actual issue is, total toughness pool and point scarcity. The toughness talents themselves are 0% the issue in my experience.
And yeah VoC makes toughness gen super easy mode.
I honestly don’t see any amount of playtesting change the principle problem of stack-juggling punishing you for good gameplay.
I might disagree one some specifics here, but I agree with the general spirit. To me 2 out of 3 keystones remind us that Fatshark doesn’t play their game at Damn+ Punishing people for movement with Marksman’s Focus? Silly buffs with Focus Target? I suppose 1 out of 3 isn’t bad.
The tree feels overbloated with talents which in some cases serve no real purpose and get in the way of getting to the good stuff. Also there is little possibility of combining talents from different areas of the tree, which limits the build potential.
Even though the melee talent is ok I still want to have been a fly on the wall to hear why they thought that a keystone in an already bloated tree needed a 5 point cost to get the full benefit out of it. Just wacky decision making
It’s not nerfed, it’s kinda the same in terms of performance, just bad designed tree - small freedom for builds, unnecessarily bloated, filler nodes, left brench still has no survivability and keystones are overcomplicated with “do x to earn y buff”
Eh? There was a consensus that vet tree is meh.
having to wait 16 seconds to do your damage is definetly not a nerf
I don’t like that keystones cause i use tag constantly just to see mobs through the fire and hordes, but you don’t need to wait 16 secs, once you killed first target with 8 stacks you can keep them by reapplying tag. It should be just like Saltz WHC tag works.
There were numerical nerfs to decent talents and buffs to talents no one in their right mind would use before or after. The number of stats that was taken off veteran passively but you could regain via talent points (again, not that anyone would get all of them) was reduced too. This tree is definitely a nerf. Sure you can still have okay builds with it, but compared to both patch 14 and pre-13, it’s been constant nerfs (especially with survivability) both in isolation and compared to other archetypes. Reduction in ease of use and quality of life can be nerfs too.
that keystone is only usefull against bosses, that’s my take, i’m a bolter vet i only care about boss damage, so if i would ever consider going for a keystone i would go for that
they removed cerebral laceration from psyker, and gave a nerfed version to the vet, i loved cerebral laceration, but now with maulers and crushers HP increase my old brain burst is completely useless
But there was some structure changes aswell, like Confirmed Kill at the top, ammo and anit-suppresion nodes are easier to reach now. VoC 100 to 50 nerf if fair, it was OP.
It’s reversed, or should i say it works against elites/specials just better. Again, you can keep damage buff from Redirected Fire just with killing tagged targets, you don’t need to wait 16 secs in between to gain damage buff.
Bolter build is good now cause of ammo+anti suppression+congirmed kill nodes are easy to get in one combo and still having deffensive talents (no keystones build)
Or you can go for a bigger damage with Focus Fire but there will be a tradeoff.