Given how many times I’ve had people complain about not having it when they run out of ammo when the big fights hit? Pretty damn important.
I think things like confirmed kill were gonna be nerfed regardless, tree shift or not. I think my only objection to the new tree is no way to cross over before the keystones. Psyker has this to a lesser extent, but in the vet tree it is really noticable.
After playtesting the melee build, it performed really well. I can’t put my finger on it, because for all intents and purposes i should be doing less damage from what i see in the tree, but I am definitely pumping out a lot more. Must be the keystone weapon specialist.
Some dead nodes could be brought up to snuff but that is true for all skill trees across the classes.
Oh yeah, please fix exhilarating take down making you take more tough damage instead of less, thanks.
Someone on reddit helpfully listed all the talent value changes on veteran with this patch:
Summary
- Confirmed Kill:
Before: 25% toughness on elite/special kill, another 25% over 10 seconds
After: 10% toughness on elite/special kill, another 20% over 10 seconds - Out For Blood:
Before: Additional 2.5% toughness on kills
After: Additional 3.5% toughness on kills - Fire Team:
Before: +3% damage to everyone in coherency
After: +5% damage to everyone in coherency - Twinned Blast:
Before: 10% chance to throw an extra grenade for free
After: 20% chance to throw an extra grenade for free - Executioner’s Stance:
Given an extra node that will highlight Ogryn enemies - Voice of Command: (this one was actually noted in the patch notes)
Before: Duty and Honor node gives +100 extra maximum toughness
After: Duty and Honor node gives +50 extra maximum toughness - For the Emperor!
Before: On ability use, +20% melee and ranged damage for 5 seconds
After: On ability use, +10% melee and ranged damage for 5 seconds - Skirmisher:
Before: Sprinting gives you 5% damage for 5 seconds, stacking up to 3 times
After: Sprinting gives you 5% damage for 5 seconds, stacking up to 5 times - Bring it down!:
Before: +25% damage to Ogryns and Monsters
After: +20% damage to Ogryns and Monsters - Trench Fighter Drill:
Before : +15% melee attack speed
After: +10% melee attack speed - Marksman:
Before: On ability use, +50% stronger weakspot damage for 10 seconds
After: On ability use, +20% stronger weakspot damage for 10 seconds (Ouch) - Close Quarters Killzone:
Before: On ability use, +30% close damage for 10 seconds
After: On ability use, +15% close damage for 10 seconds
A lot of those sound totally reasonable in isolation. Unfortunately, they’re not used in isolation.
There’s also two Always Prepared nodes.
for real tho
I CAN’T TAKE THIS SH*T NO MORE
1.5% extra damage for 10s, unless the stack duration refreshes each time you get a stack, this is kind of disappointing.
Anyway, given all previous major nodes were moved around and nerfed, given a test run in Auric Damnation a few minutes ago.
Yeah, Veteran is now harder to play, it’s survivability and sustainability is greatly lowered without a decent enough increase to raw power and if you want increased raw power, you’re trading said survivability.
We simply do not have enough talent points for a tree that has one nodes too many to invest in!
Not saying Veteran doesn’t have a place rn, it’s just even further diminished if you stack them up against the other classes. It works, it’s playable but goddamn, why can’t Obesesalmon just loosen up a bit, so Veteran doesn’t feel so stretched thin.
Literally the simplest thing they could do is reverse the changes and remove the bottom nodes.
And people would be happy but no oversized clownfish cannot fathom doing something sane.
The worse thing about this is we won’t see a change for months if fatshark even admit something is wrong
We won’t see one in part 2 and then fatshark go on holidays for a month so we’re stuck with the vet being gimped and even more railroady for at least 3 months at the bare minimum.
Which sucks because all they need to do, in my opinion, is roll back to the previous tree. It wasn’t good, but it was leagues better than what we have now. Short of forcing myself into a specific type of build I don’t want to play, I could not even reach any of the cap stones. Even trying to recreate my original build prior to this update, I am missing some of the nodes I previously had, have less survivability, and deal less damage.
Would it really be so difficult for fatshark to release previews / WIP updates of what they’re doing to get feedback as they go? The weeks of silence only to get stuff like this offloaded is terrible. It would have saved a lot of time.
I refuse to believe they actually consciously designed these changes
They quite literally made them all at random
to be completely honest this is typical of fatshark, even in the other tides, they have good ideas, then they nerf it untill they don’t even resemble the initial concept
Because it doesn’t do more. Bonus weakspot damage is calculated the same way as weakspot bonus on weapon perks, so is giving way less than +30% damage. Since you like to talk about how many hours you have I’m sure you don’t need further elaboration there. Bonus power on weak point hit is a straight damage multiplier, so should actually be giving 20% more damage on weak spot hits. The latter is definitely increasing your damage more than the former.
Are “damage” and “power” the same thing?
Honest question, I don’t care to minmax in this game because I don’t feel like deepdiving 10 hours of youtube videos to find out which things do what or how the math works.
I definitely get the ammo one, especially on guns like plasma/bolter/revolver where you can practically eliminate reloading at that point.
Stamina tough is a hard sell on a tree so limited by points and I really don’t value stamina that highly to begin with. I can definitely see the synergy with dead shot but I also feel like you are dumping lots of points for other potentially good stuff.
Like I don’t think any of the nodes are necessarily bad but its lots of point investment and I have to give up on stuff like iron will, bring it down, Voice of command upgrade, etc etc and I don’t think its worth it.
Definitely matter of playstyle if you can live without those. My build so far can only safe 1 point if I ignore survivalist and go straighter with fire team aura.
i do have the hours, but i’m bad at math, besides i never really understood what power meant, i just assumed it had some other stats along with the damage, but not more damage
i’m still confident that i have enough hours to tell at first glance if veteran got a buff or a nerf however, that i’m sure
i’ve been trough the whole thing since closed beta, since they nerfed my power sword like a month after release, i’m still pissed at it even now that its damage got buffed and never managed to give it a better gameplay
i’m still mad for patch 13 when they removed the reload skill to give it to the ogryn, i used to play whole games never reloading my bolter, i just pressed F when i needed it, and now i’m reduced to spend most of the time reloading as if i were using a shotgun or a revolver, that just won’t do for me
AND NOW they even nerfed the reload speed, compelling me to go for the center path a the start, because you literally can’t play without confirmed kill, and you don’t have enough perk points to get the reload perks because of all the filler perks that does nothing in the central path
maybe another veteran was not influenced by this as much, but as i’ve stated on the beginning it is my veteran that got ruined
No, damage is damage, but power is damage + impact + cleave
this is what i’ve always thought
but if someone knows better i can take a step back, the game is far from explicative in how these things works
Very handy, thank you!
@Tzcheese this may be useful to you too.
Let me explain with an example. Say you have a hypothetical ranged weapon that does 200 damage on body shot, and 300 damage on weakspot hit.
+Weakspot damage will only apply to the bonus 100 damage you get from hitting a weak spot, so with +30% weak spot damage your shot now does 330 damage on a weakspot hit.
Bonus power on weakspot hit however will take the entire damage of the weakspot hit and multiply it by 1.2 (cause 20% increase). So with Marksman your weakspot hit now does 360 damage. Because its power it will also increase the stagger and cleave of the weakspot hit by 20% as a bonus.
Also note that power increases multiply with damage bonuses. Say you’re shooting a flak target and you now have +25% flak damage on the gun. Now your weakspot hit with Marksman does 300x1.25x1.2= 450 damage.
And to clarify I wasn’t disagreeing the new tree is bad, just trying to correct misinformation about those two talents