No no, I just wanted to make sure I understand you well before I reply.
You have a great point and that’s what I would do as Zealot.
As a Vet for my build (automatic):
10m is a sweet spot for my gun. Let’s say you have 10% elite damage from weapon, 15% elite damage from talent, 30% weakspot as a bonus, and your gun has high suppression. How quick and safe do you think you can take down a group of 8 shotgunners?
Not even close mostly because talents didn’t exist (before patch 13 that is, they were called feats and were a worse format derived from instead of copied from VT2). Cope.
That isn’t what I said. That is how you decided to interpret what I said.
I never called the left tree niche, I called the right niche. Cope more.
Sounding a lot like an apologist again. The game is so perfect and good so if I don’t like it I should go play another game ? You realize that is exactly why this game hemorrhaged players before right? why it was down to less than 3k players at one point?
But not on the vet, I like the weapons vet has.
I never said I can’t aim, you just assumed because I want something more user-friendly that I was referring only to myself. Not surprising given how very “you” centric your thought process seems to be. which is ironic given:
Castration? My guy I’m gonna have to ask you to re-read the suggested changes I actually said and point to me where anything about them amkes it weaker in fact I specifically said:
in reference to the second of the two change options I suggested, given it called for a total re-work I don’t know if the numbers I said are too high but better to start high and tone down than start low.
The first option was literally keep it exactly the same but make weakspot hits generate a stack (a very obvious buff) and the rest of it was just wanting some more generous leeway on stack deterioration because 3 seconds is not enough if I am forced to swap to melee.
Cope and seethe, dude. Check yourself.
Can’t really answer this in a straight way. That depends on the build and encounter layout and how bunched up they are.
I’d say I can safely take out shotgunners with VoC or Infiltrate build in melee if they aren’t yet alerted from any distance, and might be a preference over using an automatic weapon depending on the situation.
The modifiers you described are potentially in range for BM PS VI to one-shot them which would mean potentially 2 or more kills with a swing… this could be done in a few strikes.
Running plasma is another case where I might choose to just shoot them one by one if they are fairly separated or blow them off if they are very tightly packed depending on the situation.
Damn, there are so many variables… BTW about 10m as a sweat spot isn’t that far off from my playstyle, although on Vet melee builds I mostly prefer engaging in melee on not alerted enemies over going for a shootout (again depending on the encounter layout).
Agree markman focus need some love for other gun, tag target its fine but need some tweak for not annoy someone else, weapon specialist its fine but i never know and notice how they buff …
It needs an internal cooldown like the ability it is clearly ripped off from (ol salty boi’s witch hunt). Get rid of the stack mechanic entirely. It should be you mark a target and they take 20% more damage, for 10 seconds, 15 second CD, killing the marked target refreshes the CD, Optional node that does 5 up to 8 stacks replaced with “able to designate up to two targets.” After designating your marks just become regular red marks until the target dies or the CD is over.
I think that all keystones (on all classes) are best engaged with passively; That activating and maintaining them shouldn’t be the focus of your gameplay. They should emphasise and empower your chosen playstyle as a byproduct of engaging in that playstyle.
I think the issue with both MF and WS is the sense that you need to play in ways you normally wouldn’t to get their full benefits, whether that means standing still on MF or actively managing when you switch weapons on WS, and that other classes largely don’t have this issue. Whether that’s true or not is irrelevant, in my opinion. The general perception is that you need to do these things in order to benefit from the keystones; That alone suggests that the activation and maintenance mechanics, at least, need attention.
Hard agree.
I never think about maintaining Warp Siphon or “oh empowered psionics is up my next cast is free!”
I never go “I need to run for a bit more to get a few more momentum charges” “I need to kill more enemies to trigger fury, I need to take more damage for martyrdom.”
I never think “should I keep using heavy attacks or weave in some light attacks? I need to push more to get my stacks back!”
The other three characters have keystones, the vet has capstones.
I personally think weapon specialist is totally fine and it is my regular pick if i do happen to pick a keystone.
The obvious cases have already been stated, but i also think it has some really good synergy with shotgun crit blessings and with deadshot type builds.
If anything with the tree rework i would gives this keystone a bit of time to cook in the oven to see if it really needs updating or not
I totally understand that not everyone is a fan of the stack management aspect, but it really does flow well with certain weapons.
Marksman’s focus is bit different … I do have a buddy who is an avid user for marksman focus so it clearly can work, but I’m personally of the opinion that it should have some safety features build into it to prevent that you don’t just lose stacks for simply fighting in melee for a bit. @alsozara suggestion is one way to go about it.
I mean, yeah, but that’s depressing.
Like there’s no rule that says we can’t have active keystones.
Yep all keystone vet is too strong and u want focus to benefit that but then again that make u vulnerable to other threat
We do have Disrupt Destiny.
It has a potentially 30-second timer making it easy to keep up, quick stack gain, instant reward, and incredible bonus, and I personally find the minigame of hunting highlighted enemies very enjoyable…
I don’t think Vet side keystones are on par with that.
Yes, assumed…
Anyway, back on topic.
4 classes, each have 3 talents/keystones = 12 different builds/keystones. Not exactly hard to do math. Only 1 of those require aim, i want the aim to be mandatory on 1 build so that us snipers have a place to call home, you want to every build to not require aim. Who’s the self centered again?
Maybe you’d see what i mean if id say “Every class and every build in the game should require you to have perfect aim!”
Get what i mean now?
Also
By castration i didnt mean make it weaker by castration i meant make it lose its identity.
I didnt mention ANYWHERE in any of my comments anything about strength or whatever it was you were babbling on about. The ONLY THING i was talking about this whole time was your comment about removing the need to aim in a SHARPSHOOTER aka a sniper talent build.
The veteran was always meant to be a ranged focused class and darktide ranged focused game.
Do you actually really seriously think, the only ranged focused class in the game should not have any talent build that demands aim?
Nobody needs me to repeat the MF and WS minigame isn’t up to par.
Even Warp Charges do a better job influencing gameplay.
I think, ultimately, WS just needs a bit of grease, but everyone is right to call out MF for being too beneficial to full auto run n gun.
I think it depends what you mean by “active”. I don’t see any issue with the idea of a keystone that rewards hybrid play through well-timed weapon switches, for example.
The key, in my opinion, is in making them flow naturally with the playstyle and not impose themselves on the player.
Eg, WS should not encourage the player to actively manage their weapon switches according to arbitrary counters, it should reward well timed switches that align with a skillfully executed hybrid style.
Come on dude that’s just inflammatory for no real reason. There’s some good discussion here let’s try to avoid another PvP thread.
Right, it’s true it depends on the situation. If there are rangers or armor enemies in front of them, or any other enemies that won’t get suppress by the gun, it would be much harder. But let’s make this simple, I’m saying in general, according to the playtime I have running this specific build using this specific weapon, I’m very confident in my execution. However, if I play zealot I’ll definitely go in with melee to chain crit (toughness dmg reduction) and keep them stagger and release range pressure for the team.
As provided above (my damage taken from the scoreboard), I emphasize safety greatly. I do what I’m sure I’ll come out on top most of the time.
Here’s another one to ensure you that I don’t play recklessly:
Totally fine. Nothing is wrong with that. It would be crazy to say there is only one way to play the game. People excel differently according to what they have been practicing. Even tho I have almost 1k hours in the game, if I run other people build that I haven’t tried before, I don’t think I’ll be more efficient than them even if they have half my hours. 
Tell that to that guy. Only one I am responding to in that way is it not? Guy has a chip on his shoulder and has made it clear he is not here to discuss, he is here to talk down to people.
Right, WS and MF don’t do anything if you don’t directly engage with them. They require too much, well focus. The game is intense enough already I don’t want to have to worry about swapping to maintain buffs or maintaining stacks by being super accurate all of the time.
I think this idea is correct. However, “for me”, it doesn’t apply when I find that not running it and spend my points elsewhere is way more beneficial. (just my perspective)
Right, but I would like to actually use the keystones, you know? I do on literally all of the other characters. On vet, I feel like I have to force myself to use the keystones. I dunno, maybe they should never have released the trees without vet having keystones? I think a lot of us just got used to not having keystones so now that they are there… we kinda already had builds we liked that were fine without them.
I mostly just run the mark since I mark targets anyway for visibility when I shoot at them so I may as well get a bit of extra damage for it. Still feels a bit forced but is more in-line with normal play.
