I’m glad they do experiment and try to evolve things, like what they did with talents. Experimentation can be risky and expensive. One of the reasons we see the same formula for movies/tv shows repeated constantly(like all the terrible reboots) is because it’s low risk and easy money. The end result is the same terrible tasting ice cream but “this one tastes a little more like vanilla”.
Yeah, definitely. The new difficulty is great. The talent rework is great, but still in need of more work. The new map Dark Omens is absolutely gorgeous and the most visually impressive map to date.
The way you move through Dark Omens and it purposely sets you up to see the map. When you first start, the beastmen spy on you, then you can see off to your left all this calm and beautiful scenery. As you progress up you see the Skaven; a mere appetizer for what is to come. Approaching and walking down the running water you can hear the babbling brook as you and it drop down into the valley that the rat ogre is dead in.
Going to different spots on the map where you can see areas you’ve been or yet to reach. The moment you leave the short tunnel that is just past the first boss/patrol area, you can see the log you must cross in the distance and your characters make note of that. Being in a cave with a small “window” and you can look out to see the sun shining in. The beastmen shadows marching in the distance as you get closer to the vortex. As you travel through the entire map, it constantly does things like this. It showcases things so spectacularly. It even hides little secrets here and there for the players to find.
They really created a stunning masterpiece of a map. https://imgur.com/a/51krqa3 (imgur likes to jumble the order of the pics)
Despite my gripes with various things in the game right now, I still have an appreciation for things like this and the artistry and design that goes into something like Dark Omens.
Quoted by you statement from Reddit is not an excuse. On the contrary, it speaks against FS Why?
If the creation of new maps takes 9 months and only because of this fact they decided to give instead something that is ordinary crap (WoM) indicates a complete misunderstanding ( more example of misunderstanding - people complained about the crafting system in V1, that is too RNG. In V2 we have even more RNG. That’s how they learn in FS) of the needs of their client (players and fan base) and complete incompetence, because what was published probably has not been tested by them at all.
How can they not see, for example, that repeating the weaves gives no reward and is meaningless? That this whole system is basically a one-time experience and there is absolutely no point in repeating it, because once it gives no reward, and two is scripted so that everything happens exactly the same. I will not mention the rest of the well-known problems that were widely posted on the forum during the betas and after.
Such a long process of creating content is only a testimony to the organization of work they have in the studio. To tell the truth I personally prefer to get more and interesting content less often, but that it is really well done.
In the case of FS, we get content rarely and it is broken and the repair it will last for months… cool.
So I understand that I should still pat them on the back for a job badly done and for which I still had to pay real money?
Time to face the truth, FS took for something he has no idea and they don’t know how to make it right, pushing something they has experience into the background.
They made us players a testing area for their ill-considered and sometimes simply stupid ideas. The saddest thing is that we players and fans pay for it, also in cash.
The effect can be seen in the form of Steam reviews and forum posts. I think there is nothing to play a white knight (I don’t mean you but a few are here) and defend totally wrong studio decisions even if you like them.
Oh and let’s remember one. The entire success of Vermintide, FS is due to the Warhammer brand. If it was a game in their own universe, it would certainly not achieve such success. People who play it, for the most part, are just Warhammer fans and want more Warhammer in V2.
On a side note for thoose saying it s not a small team anymore. Yes and no, first everybody is not a dev. Then they just recruited, so they reduced their efficiency… For now.
Well when you see comments about the game, it is more about the close combat feeling of the game than warhammer universe. And a lot, coming to this games says they are interested, but wonder if they must know the more …
They did think about giving unique rewards each season, so, there was a point repeating it (at first).
I kinda disagree, you must understand that the creation of the map is really well thought. I think you underestimate the time needed for this. All the architecture of Helmgart is impressive, and build with a whole architecture in mind. You also have to understand that each graphical assets needs the validation of game workshop. Dark Omens itself, is a very interesting map (that you could probably like better if beastmens where a bit more balanced, I do agree). You can even recreate the map of the whole city just exploring the base map. https://www.reddit.com/r/Vermintide/comments/b4yb78/comprehensive_map_of_helmgart/
To be honest, having done a bit of level design before, this is impressive and top notch stuff.
This is what innovation looks like. It’s always new. And no one have experience beforehand. Because, if everyone have experience beforehand, therefore it’s not new.
I know it’s not necessarely against me, but I do defend their try.
I do agree though, that the beta could have been more useful if there were time to actually makes changes. And this is, I think, the issue there. There was a closed beta specially to gather feedback. On this beta there was a few points that were all over the place :
Enemies HP (which was toned downed in beta 2)
Stagger mechanic (which I still think it’s a good idea) that came with a weapon rebalance stagger wise and mass wise (something a bit wonky in latter difficulty)
Grind issue (for weaves), treated as a hotfix right before the opening day
The strange idea to make the talents you were playing with the whole time at lvl 35 for some reason (which was also adressed rather fast)
Weaves “balance” (which is far better than during the beta, but still not in a state where we can stay it’s balanced and increasingly difficult)
So there was a “closed” beta, but way too close to release. And I think some smaller internal group of playtesters (like the one from the infamous secret discord) could have been invited way sooner for testing thoses features, in order to have a better beta, and a better release.
Some “usual stuff” were also not there, and show the lack of time here for that release :
No “art” (collected by ravaged art) specific to Dark Omens level (not that it’s important, but every other level, including DLC have them)
No weapons skins for the new weapons or challenges linked to unlock them (like in Back to Ubersreik) despite being in files.
No weaves weapons skins unlockable from weaves DESPITE the fact that they ARE here.
No cataclysm “specific” reward (which was explained, but still a bit strange due to time spent) besides challenges.
Last weave frame at “120” which show a frame that it’s a bit “too elitist” to get where it could have been easily downed to 80 (forgetting the time needed to actually play successfuly thoses maps).
The longitivity of the game isn’t harmed with new maps. I believe it’s exactly what players want, but players are driven away by a grindy and unreliable progression system, game breaking bugs and a lack of modifiers and cosmetics to keep things interesting.
No matter what other content than maps FS will release, players will not be retained or convinced to come back when these core issues which have been brought up by the community since release remain unaddressed.
One very simple solution would be to releaes existing deed and weekly modifiers into a selection system, base rewards on that. And of course change the loot from a gambling based into a crafting based system with interesting traits and properties.
Instead of fixing the foundation of the game they put stuff on top of it which no one wants.
Bogenhaven was very dissapointing in map design. I appreciate they tried something different, but it was a misstep. Especially that dark part.
What? Grindy? Right now when you have so much xp on every mission ? I love that progression on start its good its make you check other weapons and you clearly fell difference with new weapons with higher power
Ok, sure but this explanation still puts them in a bad light.
Just thinking about it is a bit too little, especially that the rewards are usually small things compared to the whole game.
It is possible that we did not understand each other here. I do not criticize the construction of maps (I like almost all of them) and the time spend to make them, but the fact instead of this, the time and resources were wasted in a mode that no one wanted, was poorly thought out and poorly made.
By the way, the Dark Omens map is not sensational at all. It seems unfinished and the plot around which the action takes place was probably written on the knee. Especially the last event. I still can’t understand why this piece of rock suddenly explodes in the mid of battle against Beastmen.
I think you are exaggerating a bit with this innovation. Similar modes exist in many games. Even the one here was compared to the one in D3.
Besides, if this is the innovation (badly made and not thought out) and I have to pay quite a lot for it, then seriously but thanks a lot. I prefer what is well done and is not experimented on me.
In point! I think that these things could improve the image of the whole “expansion” however, this should be done at the start or soon after it, not after a few months.
And about lack of time. Someone was urging someone that there was no time? Was it really better to release an underdeveloped product? In my opinion, this only proves that either it is poor with work management or an investor who “knows the western market better” has a far greater influence than we think.
I am sure that if in July there was words about the fact that FS needs a few months to improve WoM, no one will express indignation.
Anyway, I think that FS should probably go back to the basics and RELIABLE to get to work and not think that can rest on laurels.
It also shows that it is better to think about something and implement it rather than behave neurotically, because someone “knows better” what players wants.
Since the newest update me and my group got kicked out of the game from weaves and cata runs 5 times…
it happened in ~4 hours and was very frustrating.
4 different kicks, loading screen, middle of fighting, steam connection and while opening a chest.
Before the update I was not that often kicked in my whole game career.
Something didn’t went right with the fixes, I would say.