Yeah, that’s exactly the point. That’s why we commit so many build resources and take a specialized weapon to deal with that threat. That’s part of what makes it interesting, paired with the payoff when you manage to pull off the one-shot.
And that’s besides the fact that other classes have valid options to delete monstrosities in matters of seconds too. Why pick on the hammer, that fulfills the niche with actual tradeoffs?
awesome tradeoff, you are worthless for the entire game unless a boss spawns
thammers are complete design failures
One of the very few times i’ve seen a company admit “Yeah our code is too spaghetti’d to fix this right now but we’re trying”. It’s a good thing to see.
Thank you for tweaking the bolt gun. We all really appreciate it.
The proposed changes are going to make it a more generalized weapon, capable of dealing with everything more effectively now, with less build investment.
It’s an egregious buff in everything else, and it’s still going to 2-3 shot bosses.
It makes the game less interesting because it further homogenizes it with other options, while still fulfilling the original niche in an overall still effective way.
You’re thinking on this is totally misguided - having to make choices that make you rely on your team is desirable in a co-op shooter. That is what current hammer is. The current iteration is competent enough at letting you survive and even hold off the chaff until your allies can get the breathing room to help you. The current design is an unironic design W.
Agreed, making the hammer less frustrating to use is a nice quality of life change. But it’s most iconic aspect has always been the ability to blow up the bosses. We are not space marines so makes sense our corpse starch reject diet doesn’t let us swing this massive hammer so hard that we can still crack the fifth guys skull after going through 4. It’s charged attack deleting heresy comes from the fact that it isn’t just a hammer, it’s a thunder hammer. It shouldn’t stop being a thunder hammer because it’s trying to be a less clumsy hammer.
Yes, it is a matter of perspective and design vision.
But this is the fundamental conflict with the current thammer, as i have argued at length. But i’ll make my case again here. Monstrosities are supposed to be team fights, something exciting for the whole team to engage with. When some guy just one or three shots it and i do not even get to hit it then they have, actually, taken something from me. They have taken a cinematic battle away from me and trivialized it. Sure that player sacrificed survivability and flexibility to do it but only they had fun and at the expense of my fun. Clutching a boss fight solo is a fun skill expression that takes some time. Instakilling the biggest enemies in the game that are designed to be team encounters just eliminates the fun of others for the fun of self. It may be an efficient way to win a mission but effiencymaxxing ruins video games.
Its hard to say what the new boss breakpoints will be off hand just from a numbers tweak. But it looks like a pretty soft adjustment so i think we should just wait and see how things shake out. Right now thammer cannot reliably oneshot crushers or maulers with godrolls and thrust unless usinf FotF so some kind of buff to carapace is really welcome.
@alsozara I was right!
I am absolutely against reducing power when it comes to monsters. The thunder hammer has always held a special place in warhammer lore. By activating lightning, all warhammer heroes have always killed a monster with a single blow. Or if they didn’t, they were causing him enormous damage. Where did the stupid need to change it now come from? Taking away almost all of the energy from a weakened heresy monster in one hit means absolutely nothing. Today I had a situation where I had 4 weakened monsters and one complete monster come out at the same time. Even the famous hammer didn’t help in that situation when I was surrounded by all of them, snipers, flamethrowers…and other enemies.
As for the other changes, I think they are good and correct and I can’t wait to see them in action. But please don’t reduce the damage hammers do to monsters because then it will never be the old hammer we were proud of.
Your perspective is understandable, but at the same time alot of other weapons exist that do the killing boss really quickly thing, just not in 1 burst. Example below. I doubt if you were dealing with your own hoard you’d get to damage this spawn or even look at it in time to see it perish. [clip courtesy of Azreal - 5944707098 from discord]. The only reason anyone suffers the Thunderhammer is that spectacle of a kill.
i wouldn’t have any problems with the thunderhammers buff/nerf, but if TH is gonna have is damage against unyielding reduced other classes should tone down on the boss killing timing too, veteran/psyker (and now zealot too) with recon lasgun and ogryn with point-blanck barrage melt bosses at a phase that landing a hit before they are dead with TH could be a problem.
P.S. krack granades if going with the correct build can destroy bosses too, and knife isn’t slow at boss damage either and with their great movility/survivability they are easy to wield against them.
I’ll add - if we’re going for cinema, add maps with objectives built in like the Karnak Twins. Build them into new maps.
As it stands though - the idea that I took something away from somebody because I made their life easier with my overspecialization is a bit silly to me. I don’t get mad when you kill 15 crushers that burst out of a random wall sphincter- I thank you for it, because I’m not built to deal with that effectively. That’s fine, at the end of the day.
Oh my god this, Vet lost its instant reload to ogryn, which made shotguns super miserable to use. Also the ranged tree with the moving/not moving stuff needs to be reworked, camouflage should also reduce aggro when in coherency by an amount. Tree could also be shortened more, it still costs a lot to even reach a keystone compared to other jobs. While we are proliferating weapons, there’s no reason zealot or psyker shouldn’t be able to get a power sword. Could vet get a few more options for weapons like long las, melta, krak/frag launcher or hellgun?
Double down on the unyielding damage boost, Make it easier to achieve the thing the hammer is iconic for. Then you won’t need to invest so much into the hammer 1 shot and can be more flexible if you want to use the hammers and still have a good build. Solves the problem of the hammers being too niche and too hard to use. You should be attracted to the hammers devastating potential for carnage and spectacle not because it is the all round best weapon. Making it’s Extreme damage more accessible with less investment should achieve the intended effect of making it more friendly for it’s user. The hammer does not need to solve all our problems, we have other parts of our kits that we sacrifice to make the hammers do the cool things, if we didn’t have to commit as much I’d wager a lot more people wouldn’t be so opposed to using hammers.
As probably u have read, most people who defend the big damage that TH dealt against bosses are the people that play it the most, counter to the people that dessire the nerf probably never used it anyway, i don’t want to say it but if u can’t make the TH viable and a good weapons is just because of your own hands, i appriciate the buffs, but if the damage against bosses is going to be reduced, nerf other characters that can melt bosses too, seeing and feeling the 1 or 2 shoot of a boss is fun and cool others people complaint about it really is just for the visual of it, they can melt bosses too, they just can’t one-shot, another point is that one-shot on weakeaned bosses are easy of course but normal bosses or the ones with nurgle blessing on, are significantly hard to one-shot and need experience and knowledge about the weapon/positioning and awereness of buffs stacked.
So please don’t nerf the damage against bosses, and if u do please nerf other classes that can melt them too, i’ll leave some expample: vet/psyker and soon zealots with recon lasgun, knife, ogryns with point-blank barrage using heavy stubber and rumbler, krack granades, Columnus Mk V Infantry Autogun.
P.S. I don’t speak english so please forgive me if you have trouble trying to understanding me, i’ll hope this reach the devs.
Just because other things can do it, does not mean it is a good thing to have.
Then buffing the Boss health solves everyone’s problems, and then they can buff the hammer so it’s an actual special weapon with practical reason to use it and not just a showoff weapon.
Meh, I never see anyone pull the boss deletion combo in actual match outside of THammer Zealot.
Most of them require certain setup that need the star to be align to even work while also sacrifice a lot of thing just to be able to do it well.
It’s fine to let teammate hit the boss too you know.
Also
That’s quite an assumption. lol
good job, I can really play thunder hammers rather than as the flamethrower’s secondary. But maybe you can just change the crucis’s heavy attack to overhead, sothat the two hammers will differs more.
Dude if you think a zealot with a knife should be able to do 30,000 damage to a boss with one swing idk what to tell you. The knife is obviously far and away the best melee weapon in the game and its not even close.
I’m a hammer advocate, brother. I don’t care what happens to the knife.