buffing boltgun sway and draw speed would be an indirect buff to voice of command builds the way i see it, and nobody should want that
vets should get incentivized to use exe stance, getting the free reload back aswell
2 Likes
Zealots use bolters too
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yes iâve thought about that aswell, every zealot would have a bolter in his back pocket now, but iâm not concerned about that, they have the right to do so and nothing wrong with that
iâd trade away survivability if i get my free reload back
this patch we get
which is already a great deal if they keep their word that is
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I agree that exe stance needs more. It feels like vet is very dependent on the panic button they get from VoC or infil.
Maybe the buff for exe should be defensive/survivability?
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Oh Omnissiah⌠Damage buff⌠Itâs so beautiful.
I hope those recoil compensation buffs are temporary till jank is finally fixed.
High recoil, high Damage! LETâS GO!
9 Likes
Currently Revolver and Plasma gun both can one shot head shot every enemy in the entire game including crushers - and can body shot just about everything that isnât an ogryn all while cleaving multiple enemies at a time. They have no enemies they are weak against, no range limitations, no accuracy issues, or any other thinkable drawbacks. Being able to, without effort, dispatch hordes of elites and specials by yourself without any weaknesses isnât great balance imo. Weaknesses on a weapon are just as defining as its strengths.
Revolver and plasmagun both need weaknesses. Like revolvers small magsize could be, if it didnât reload so fast, and kill multiple elites in a single body shot. Or Plasmaâs heat could be if venting wasnât essentially free except the small amount of time it takes to use the special.
I do agree there are weak weapons (Lasguns in general, recon lasguns specifically are not in a great place) but just giving everything 100% damage vs all armors and near infinite cleave removing any and all weaknesses means there isnât a choice, because all weapons are the exact same just with different names.
Allowing weapons to have significant weaknesses creates a niche for them, and more importantly, everything else. It lets you create builds that are unique and interesting because choices have real consequences outside of how the weapon looks.
5 Likes
donât kid yourself, revolver main weakness should be low damage and non existent cleave
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Recon lasguns are great fun right now on Vet with double rending talents, free ammo on crits and Infernus. I can kill any enemy, do mega boss damage and regularly top the scoreboard on A5s.
And they feel completely different to play, versus revolver or plasma. An increasing number of more viable options that feel different to play is, imo, the goal of balancing. You have to spec into making recons work, and thatâs exactly how Iâd want the build system to function.
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tactical axe range buff WHEN
4 Likes
Yo, thanks for the reply
You bring up some good points here for why it ought be nerfed.
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I have always enjoyed using recon lasguns, even back when they were actual trash tier weapons. And while they are not as bad as the Shredder, I wouldnât say they are strong currently based on my experience in Auric Maelstrom. I have made them work, but there are somethings that feel terrible:
The multiple nerfs to the consecutive crit mechanic, specifically the one that makes shocktroop not proc on them creates a horrible anti-synergy that just shouldnât exist. just remove the consecutive crit mechanic, and give the gun a normal crit chance/finesse modifier.
You want to build into crit (headhunter) for shock troop, but the finesse modifier on reconlasguns are horrible, a headshot crit not even doing double damage, and a body shot crit is only 45% damage boost so you are investing a lot of effort for minimal returns.
The fact it does reduced damage to ALL armor types (so excluding infested/unarmored) forces you into rending/brittleness⌠and while those are obvious pairings, I donât feel like they should be mandatory to make these weapons functional - specially since it is now being expanded to all human classes who do not have access to these talents. Recon lasguns simply arenât strong enough to warrant that level of weakness imo.
The base DPS of the recon las is nothing special - combined with everything else it is quite lackluster as far as stats go. I love the weapon, and I do still use it, I donât think its in a great spot personally.
Iâve never taken HH on the recons because my weakspot hit rate with them, as I whip the gun around to get burns going on as many enemies as possible, has proven consistently low.
The change to Dum Dum will mean Iâll probably be dropping it because Infernus wonât keep it up for free forever, but I still donât think Iâll be taking HH. I think your preference there vs mine speaks to the effectiveness of the build system/space in DT. HH isnât even on my radar.
Another reason I think the build system/space is great is because of the rending talents on the Veteran. Being able to stack those blessings gives the class a distinct advantage with a range of weapons.
But I also love the feel of the recons on my Scrier Psyker, where the rapid fire and super-high crit chance allows me to face entire lines of gunners without flinching via Mettle and Empathic Evasion. But because of the lack of rending talents, I have to handle crushers either in melee or via brain burst. Itâs amazing how distinct the recons feel on these classes.
Iâm excited to see how theyâll feel on Zealot.
3 Likes
I have used both Dumdum, and Headhunter, both before and after the consecutive crit changes - there isnât much difference between them post CC nerfs.
And again, I do love how the recon lasguns feel (well except for the II, its just bad)
I think the synergy with rending/brittleness should stay - at no point am I going to advocate for reconlasgun having 100% damage to all armor types, that is antithetical to my entire thought.
I am saying the recon lasguns have a lot of weaknesses, specifically compared to other ranges weapons, and I am not seeing any stat that would justify those weaknesses. I would love to see it keep all the same weaknesses, but have an increase to something like finesse, allowing it to have a higher ceiling to justify how many flaws the weapon has.
Oh I will.
Looking at this on paper: None of the bolt gun / bolt pistol changes look like theyâd be powerful enough to make me use them over the Zarona Revolver or the plasma Gun.
Please bring back the Veteran Reload option to X-Stance. Since Part 2 states relentless will morphed in now (thankyou), We could at least get itâs node point replaced with an ability modifier of +50% reload speed while in the stance.
You could call it something cool like âRack and Ruinâ
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I largely agree, my contention is that is a GREAT thing. Revolver and Plasma should be toned down - be given weaknesses so there is a real reason to not pick them.
I would love to see an instant reload mod added to exe stance - or something like it. I do miss that reload 
I would honestly take no buffs at all on the thunderhammer to keep the ability to one shot monstrosities, what exactly about building specifically for monster removal is unhealthy?
5 Likes
Seconding this question. The idea that one-shotting a monstrosity is unhealthy is a matter of perspective.
Weâre dealing with a threat for our team so that they can focus on other threats. Itâs not taking something away from them, itâs doing something for them so that they can focus on other matters.
Weâre contributing a significant portion of our build to fulfill that niche, giving us significant weaknesses when dealing with non-monstrosity threats.
Now - with these measures, thunder hammer is just turning into another beat stick to deal with chaff. The identity is lost.
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monstrosities are kinda supposed to be a threat and not be deleted in 5 seconds
9 Likes
Yeah, thatâs exactly the point. Thatâs why we commit so many build resources and take a specialized weapon to deal with that threat. Thatâs part of what makes it interesting, paired with the payoff when you manage to pull off the one-shot.
And thatâs besides the fact that other classes have valid options to delete monstrosities in matters of seconds too. Why pick on the hammer, that fulfills the niche with actual tradeoffs?
4 Likes