"Unlocked and Loaded" Itemisation Rework - my dubious attempt to summarise what we know

Posted this on reddit 12 days ago but might be useful here and interested if others can correct anything I have wrong.

Here is an attempt to summarise my understanding of the Itemisation rework. My understanding might be flawed, and we don’t have key information on certain details.

What we know is from:

The Itemization Overview | Trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69zI8J5nnZU

The Dev blog from 26th June and two Q&A’s from 19th July and 29th August.

https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/introduction-to-the-itemization-rework-dev-blog/

https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/itemization-rework-q-a-part-1-dev-blog/

https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/itemization-rework-q-a-part-2-dev-blog/

And the balance previews for the update from 6th September with information about new blessings and class changes for weapons:

https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/unlocked-and-loaded-weapon-blessing-and-class-changes-balancing-patch-notes-pt-1/

https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/unlocked-and-loaded-weapon-blessing-and-class-changes-balancing-patch-notes-pt-2/ )

So as I understand it:

  • The 2/4 Perk & Blessing locks are being removed. Likewise the 3rd locked slot on curios.
  • All weapons can be “empowered” to a base rating of 380. This looks to be a big use of diamantine.
  • You don’t have direct control over the 5 modifier bars so you can’t choose exactly which bars are 80% and which is dumped at 60%. BUT you will see the maximums modifiers on every weapon and so know what they will look like fully empowered to base rating 380.
  • You keep your existing weapons (& curios) but the current locks will be removed and they can also be empowered to 380 base rating.
  • You have more control over acquiring specific blessings as you grind “Mastery” in that weapon type. which is obtained like normal XP by doing missions with that type of weapon.
  • Progressing Mastery for a Weapon Family unlocks new blessings, perks, weapon marks and a special weapon cosmetic along the way via the reward tracks. There is an element of choice about what blessings you want to unlock first.
  • Mastery will be by the same weapon groups that share blessings e.g. the three Infantry Autoguns. I did wonder if weapon groups were being changed but it doesn’t look like it was, it looks like the 45 weapon families will remain the same.
  • Mastery progress and unlocks for the weapon groups will be account wide like the Blessing Book.
  • The Earn Blessing mechanic by sacrificing a weapon with the one you want is being removed. (BUT!..)
  • Instead you can also gain Mastery XP in a Weapon Family by sacrificing unwanted weapons; the weapon sacrificed does not have to be the same as the weapon family of the Mastery track you are progressing. - *“Note: If it’s the same weapon family, more Mastery XP will be given versus if it’s a different weapon family.”
  • Your current known Blessings Bank (the “sticker book”) will be converted into Mastery progression. (This is good for me as I’ve collected all 1214 blessings.) This means players will start the new systems with a head start in mastery, giving them the chance to unlock previously owned blessings, as well as the chance to unlock some blessings players never had before the update. Apparently you don’t need all the current blessings to have full mastery. “Players will not need every blessing of a weapon family to achieve max Mastery upon introduction of the new system. We are looking at something like having all T4/T3 blessings will be enough to max Mastery.”
  • It does seem as part of this you then will not retain the blessings you have unlocked. Instead you may repurchase them or choose different blessings.
  • You can still use existing methods of getting weapons and curios: Emperor’s Gift, Sire Melk’s Requisitorium, The Armoury Exchange, and Consecrate at Hadron’s Shrine. All will allow players to get to blessings they have not yet unlocked via Mastery.
  • Some weapons will become accessible to more classes. Veterans: Heavy Swords, Duelling Swords. Zealot: Duelling Swords, Recon Lasguns, Psykers: Heavy Swords, Chainaxes, Braced Autoguns, Combat Shotguns.
  • More blessings added and rebalance of existing ones: - Covered extensively in Part 2 of the Balancing Patch Notes.
  • I am less sure about exactly how but Q&A 2 seems to imply you can change weapons between different “marks”/variants of the same weapon family*. - “With the new system, players will be able to freely change between marks of a weapon family as they progress in the Mastery track. This means the player will only be searching for the base weapon with the stats distribution they want, rather than searching for the preferred stats distribution on each individual mark.”
  • … But there are some limits on customisation based on Empower (formerly called Expertise in the Dev Blog and Q&A 1).
  • The amount of Expertise Power on a weapon is I believe is linked to your Mastery level in that weapon family and (perhaps) the base rating of the weapon. It appears to start at 100 and has a maximum of 500.
  • It appears “Power” replaces “Rating” on a weapon’s stats.
  • Expertise Power gives a “modification cap” that is a limit on how much a weapon’s perks and blessings can be modified. From the few WIP screen shots we have it seems the modification ratings are a bit more variable but don’t match the numbers we currently have for rating. With different perks and blessings of the same tier being worth different amounts.
  • The maximum amount appears to be determined by the Mastery rank of that Weapon Family and how upgraded the specific weapon is (tied to spending Diamantine?). So far less detail and explicit examples have been given. I am more apprehensive about how this plays out.

What is currently uncertain and I am perhaps “concerned” about:

  • What the limits are on modifications. It roughly seems to be 1/5 of the Power Rating of the weapon.
  • From the few WIP screen shots we have it seems the modification ratings are a bit more variable but don’t match the numbers we currently have for rating. “+25% vs Unyielding” is 8 modification points rather than giving 25 item rating as it is now. Likewise tier 3 uncanny strike is 38 modification points but tier 3 rampage is only 27 points. Although it looks like the cap might be 500 Power with 100 modification points. Strawhat has stated that a base rating 380 weapon will be fully upgradable with two Tier 4 perks and two Tier 4 blessings.
  • How much it costs to upgrade to 380. One can stare at exactly 00:47 at the trailer for a hint: One can stare at exactly 00:47 at the trailer for a hint: which costs 6000 dockets, 175 plasteel and 180 diamantine to go from 420 Power to 430 Power… and this is the same amount for a similar image in the Dev Blog going from 490 to 500.
  • How does a weapon’s 5 modifier bars at 380 reflect it’s current distribution? Going down the complete rabbit hole of looking at the 3 weapons in the trailer and 3 WIP images in the Dev blog and Q&A 1 it doesn’t look like they increase in exactly the same way - it sorta seems evenly distributed until even until a bar hits 80% but not exactly, but these are example screenshots that I am reading too much into.
  • How much of a grind Mastery XP will be. The hint at exactly 00:31 of the trailer for 5850 Mastery XP for 1 out of 20 ranks which implies 117,000 XP. But an earlier WIP screenshot has 1820 Mastery XP to go from rank 5 to 6. So this is making a lot of assumptions. Including that Mastery XP is earnt at the same rate as normal XP.
  • When best to sacrifice weapons for Mastery: How much the worth of sacrificing weapons to “Earn Blessings” to fill up unlocked blessings before the update vs feeding weapons to increase mastery after the update. My assumption is that it’s worth more before, esp. with Tier 3 and 4 blessings.
  • What provision there will be for the starting Mastery levels for players who have gotten to level 30 (perhaps on multiple characters) but who don’t have much if any unlocked blessings in the “Blessing Stickerbook” Esp. for those who primarily played between the November 2022 release and when Crafting & Blessings were finally fully implemented almost 3 months later with Patch #4 “Blessings of the Omnissiah” towards the end of February 2023.
  • How exactly will the current rating system (up to 550) be converted into the new Power system (up to 500) and how many modification points existing weapons have to spend? - And will this be limited by the player’s Mastery in that weapon family. For those few existing rating 550… could a player who hasn’t maxed out Mastery in that weapon family - would these be potentially locked out of changing any perks and blessings?
  • I am also a little unsure about how well some players will take to being limited to what perks can be selected by their Progression along the Mastery track. Currently you can slap a tier 4 perk on a 103 weapon you have on a level 2 alt if you really want to and have the resources.
  • How do you change weapons between different variants/marks? How much does this cost? What happens to weapons with different modifier bars? - The Antax Mk5 Combat Axe has Cleave Targets whilst Achlys Mk8 and Rashad Mk2 have Finesse instead - I presume these will just interchange.

That’s a less than short summary than I like but it’s a chunky change.
The bit I am most apprehensive about is exactly how the Expertise Power system works.

8 Likes

This is really solid, I like it.

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I’m really disappointed that 380 is still the stat cap and that there is still RNG regarding weapon stat distribution. It’s been years now of them “hearing us” that RNG in our gear progression is the problem. They just keep steadfastly refusing to fix the problem and just keep slapping bandaids onto the problem in the hopes that THIS bandaid is enough to finally make the system “good enough” to stop them from hemorrhaging more players.

They could have saved themselves a ton of grief by just keeping the vermintide 2 crafting systme instead of trying to reinvent the wheel.

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I can see that, but my expectation is that in reality it will be pretty easy to find a weapon with the maximum distribution you want

Given that it’s 380 max with 80% per bar the actual maximum distribution will look somewhere between:

76/76/76/76/76 for an entirely equal distribution to 80/80/80/80/60 for the most extreme min-max.

Which is far less variance to play with than 300-380 then distributed between the 5 bars.

<Warning: 6 1/2 year old rant ahead.>
My super hot take is I would rather the simple loot system of Vermintide 1 where:

  • There was no pointless Item Power or Base Rating grind.
  • Just 3 grades of damage based on rarity colour: White/Green < Blue < Orange/Red
  • No bothering with IMO boring % based properties/perks - Just multiple weapon traits (DT blessings): 1 on green, 2 on blue, 3 on orange & red.
  • The Shrine of Solace system let you reroll your weapon’s traits but choose to keep your old roll (something removed from VT2 to my eternal chagrin) or to reroll your % chance of a trait but always keep your older roll if it was higher.
  • Red (Veteran) weapons would not only have unique skins have unique trait combinations that orange weapons sometimes lacked, and also would appear on the Contracts board.
  • The daily contracts board was shared across the entire playerbase and players could then select an item to work towards at their own pace.

Getting loot and crafting specific weapons was far too random in VT1 and substantially improved in VT2, likewise having to unlock traits with crafting materials was annoying and thankfully dropped in VT2
But sadly I don’t think they’ll put VT1 systems back into DT or VT2

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Yeah 80% still being the cap confuses me

If 80% is the max why not just make that display as 100%

Unless weapons that can go to 100% are coming at some point

My honest opinion on the origin of the 80% number is that it is an artifact from the launch days of the game when we didn’t have a single number on our statcards and people were counting pixels to compare stat bars. I think that it is an insidious psychological trick to make players think that they still could “do better” and keep grinding since the bar wasn’t full.

that’s correct, and therefore i don’t see a reason to keep this RNG stats distribution at all.
people will simply buy grey weapons until they have one with a “perfect” stat distribution and then upgrade that weapon. just as they did before, however now upgrading is fully controllable if you have the mastery.

at which point why bother with RNG stats at all. it seems that some devs are conviced that RNG is necessary for whatever reason, even if in practice most players avoid it wherever possible. maybe we have to roll dice for good weapon bases for another year until they finally kick this idea and just let us configure the distribution within the 380 (or whatever it will be) base total.

i don’t worry much about this, as the new system seems infinitely better than the “brick factory”, but it’s weird why a minimal form of RNG needs to stay.

I had a tinfoil hat theory that started to form from staring too much at the WIP examples of 3 weapons profiles shown in the trailer, 1 in the Dev blog and 2 in Q&A 1…

…In particular at the base rating (total of the 5 modifiers) + Modification vs Power.
That the current rating system of a scale of starting weapons at 85 to 550 (380 base rating + two Tier 4 perks and two Tier 4 blessings) is just going.

Power seems to be on a scale of 100-500. With Mastery from 1-20.
Power might be Base rating (380 max) + Modification Points (100 max) but this leaves 20.

And this might mean they were going to change the modifier bars from a scale of 0-80% to 0-100% by changing it by 1.25
But maths caught up to me and it occurred to me that this would mean that base rating 380 would be 475, not 500. And 85 would be 107.

So it seems probably.

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