The idea behind the class isn’t that simple. It’s a complicated class, and you have to heat up for damage/cool down for safety frequently as the situation changes. That flexibility is what makes the class amazing, you are constantly balancing on a risk/reward tightrope and get to pick where on the rope you are at any time.
Taking that away would reduce it to “hit enemies, they die, press F to make them die more” that literally every other class does. That’s nice enough I guess, 8/9ths of the game uses it just fine, but I really do not want to lose the one unique class.
That is for once a suggestion I could get behind. It would increase the potential reward for playing at high overcharge without nerfing the risk. It would fit within her base design and also within the specific talent row.
For Searing Grasp either the DoT number of ticks or damage per ticks could be increased, number would be preferable though. Not sure how to adjust it for Chain Reaction. For Chain Reaction they should first start with the chain burn actually doing damage though. And all talents in the row would then be overcharge dependent.
It is a far better suggestion than increasing the overcharge pool or changing the damage transfer numbers. On Cataclysm, the risk is already manageable without to much effort, so it should stay the same.
For Chain Reaction it’s my understanding that it has a very low chance of proccing and does no damage. I don’t see why both can’t be overcharge dependent. At max OC it could be a 1/4 chance of happening with good damage within an acceptable radius.
Sure that would work. But the current issue with Chain Reaction is that neither the explosion nor the “burn” effect caused by the explosion do any damage (although I am convinced that at least the explosion DID damage in an earlier version, so maybe it got changed during the last two patches). This means there is currently no use for Chain Reaction other than staggering.
However, in order to do an actual chain reaction, enemies hit by an explosion caused through Chain Reaction would have to die through burning and as such being eglible for a new explosion. So unless the “burn” does no damage, the talent itself is not worth the pick right now. If this is getting fixed then yes, increasing chance and damage would be an option. Although from pure design perspective and personal opinion I think only increasing chance would be enough and a better fit for the Unchained.
What if you made it where taking damage gives overcharge but it can’t blow you up? A friend of mine suggested this change and I think it would solve UC’s problems tbh. Also, the same friend informed me that the current overheat bar is 50. So the idea you thought would fix UC may already be in place.
That change would make Unchained broken strong and practically unkillable. 50% damage reduction + whatever temporary damage reduction you can get, plus 60% extra melee power, at the ‘cost’ of ‘you cannot use ranged weapons, sometimes’ is incredibly broken.
Agreed. In that case you would need to tune down the DR a little bit. 60% melee damage isn’t really a huge deal on UC though. Melee weapons aren’t really set up to make use of it. That’s why the class doesn’t work right now. Super squishy and low damage output.
idk man, I have no complaints about Unchained’s melee killing power. I think the 60% melee power buff does the job nicely, and that to ge the most out of it you need to use all-rounder weapons, not specialized weapons (Sienna’s 1h sword and her flail make the best use of the powerbuff. Without it, they’re ‘ok’ at everything. With it, they excell at everything.)
It’s her ult’s lack of firepower, her lack of talent variety, and her overcharge bar being so tiny that sucks.
Unchained is extremely powerful as a tank melee berserker, especially in cata where she can dish out massive damage with the flail. Just keep on high overcharge at all times while having your ult in reserve for emergencies. Using it for random damage is bad play.
You can play unchained with different styles thanks to great varieties in talents. Even playing a lot of ranged using conduit, spamming fireball with superfast low self-damage venting. Or if you are nervous about being on high overcharge you can easily do a fast vent and get back into the safe zone.
You can make the point that the playstyle and ult is not exciting enough, but the unchained is very very powerful, if you don’t see that frankly you need more practice because you dont have the mechanics to master the unchained.
The problem is that to get 60% you have to become a 1-hit kill. There’s no way that’s worth the trade. In realistic gameplay when you need to keep a defense buffer against lag hits, you are sitting at 3 stacks most of the time, which is 36%. Mercenary gets about that much just by existing. This is the biggest reason that UC needs her 50 overcharge pool back.
No, you don’t. Even in red overcharge state is still needs 2-hits to make you explode. And even then you still have a safety net. And the red overcharge state has a large buffer. People wanting to trade hits with enemies is not a design problem of the Unchained. It is normal that you get an occasional hit during hordes but that alone does not overcharge the career. And ten seconds later you can get already a new hit. If you get hit that often it is an issue of playstyle and you can chose a safer class to play.
We can talk about increasing the reward for high overcharges like including it into Searing Grasp (which is quite a good idead by @dannylew8299). We can talk about fixing Chain Reaction as it does not work as intended currently. And we can talk about Flame Wave because it is the only talent I think which everyone flat out agrees needs some kind of overhaul. But there is absolutely zero reason to change her damage transfer mechanics or overcharge pool.
You can hit trade on every other class in the game except for the “tank” career. Seems good.
Yes! Exactly. All of the other careers are “safer,” but UC does less damage. Please explain, now that you’ve admitted UC isn’t safe, how this is balanced?
Safe in the context of trading hits. There is no other class in the game which is as strong against attrition as the Unchained (maybe minus the Ironbreaker but only because of Gromril’s Armor). And no, you can’t trade hits with every other class in the game. I have 100 games on Legend with the Pyromancer and 150+ with Unchained on Cataclysm. And Unchained is a lot easier and safer to play.
In exchange the Unchained gets a huge boost to melee damage. Higher than any other class in the game. And no, you don’t play at best with a 36 % boost. You play that at worst. You can play at 60 % and still have one safe hit before you need the safety net. In average you will have the 48 %. So, the premise that UC does less damage is outright wrong. If you can’t handle the large overcharge buffer and you need a career which can compensate consecutive hits you can play something “safer”. But on Cataclysm most ranged careers go also down with two hits, only that these are two hits total and not consecutive like for Unchained.
Except like every class. Attrition is not a thing in this game because thp regen is insane.
Ok? Your subjective experience isn’t really relevant. I could tell you about my experience but what does that prove?
Clearly not understanding the value of crit multipliers.
BW w/ flame sword gets 150% increased damage. So…
Again. Making my point for me.
You can regen thp. I thought you never got hit twice in a 10 second window. What happened to that? Let’s also not forget that BW has like 100% uptime on 30% DR. And if you get hit on pyro it gives you a ton of CDR so you can just throw a burning head and get all your hp back. You need to put some time in on the other wiz careers and then you’ll see how badly UC under performs in comparison.
It is absolutely pointless to discuss with you because you repeat over and over again the same refuted points. In a similar thread Kitten demolished all your arguments why weapons you consider bad are actually not bad and you still made false points or ignored it.
Also you clearly ignore the difference between consecutive hits and hits coming in several step. If you play ranged class you may built up temporary hitpoints but they will decrease rather fast which means that getting a hit now and then when your thp shield is not up will down you pretty fast. So yes, attrition is a large thing, especially after the increased THP decrease rate. This will not happen with the Unchained. Unchained is so tanky in attrition that you can easily go without the 20 % HP increase. And you can also skip on her Bomb Balm because it just isn’t needed and use an actual helfpul talent. I have already explained that “safer” concerns to a rather idiotic playstyle of trading hits.
Also criticial hits are still by chance (which can be boosted quite a bit though) while the Unchained boost is adressed to all hits without exception which results in a higher average.
Also if you have played Cataclysm in the last two months you should have noticed quite a large amount of Unchaineds, both not going down and dishing out lots of damage. But this is not a point I need to convince you. FS has most likely the end of game data and can clearly see this themselves. Increasing her defense any more than it is already and she will basically be immortal.
Be happy, I will NOT engage further with you as you have demonstrated in other discussions that you have no idea how certain weapons work. I will even ignore your “witty” response to my post how I am so proving your points and not making arguments. Like I said, FS has the data to actually see who is correct and not. I’m tired of people screaming for buffzerking left and right because they are doing something wrong.
Good point. That’s why they mentioned reworking UC.
Says the guy who can’t play cata on Pyro and BW. That’s hilarious. I can easily play cata on any career. In fact, I’ve true solo’d cata on multiple careers. I’m not playing UC incorrectly. It’s just simply not competitive with the other wiz careers. Your limited anecdotal experience does not make a compelling argument. The mathematical argument for UC still states that she has the lowest effective hp. If you can avoid getting hit enough that you play at high overcharge on UC there is absolutely no reason why you should be dying on the other wiz careers. That makes literally zero sense.
This argument falls apart when you look at the effect of crit multipliers. For example, look at crow bill light attacks against a CW. Crow bill does around 5 damage on light attacks. Crits do around 20 damage on light attacks. Those numbers aren’t exact, but they are close. This means that 50% attack power will make all of your hits do 7.5 damage. Running 40% extra crit on pyro means that an extra 40% of your attacks do an extra 15 damage. 0.415= 6 vs. 1.02.5= 2.5. This also doesn’t factor in the fact that high crit chance on pyro allows you to stunlock elites. Even CW.
Dagger has a huge crit multiplier. In this way, it’s similar to rapier. I don’t remember the exact numbers, but you could test it, using the same forumla as above. 1H sword is a tough call. It’s very similar on both UC and Pyro. Pyro is better at killing elites with 1H sword because of crit Armor Pen and UC is a little better with horde clear mathematically. However, that doesn’t even factor in SS uptime which is a huge bonus for pyro. On top of that, throw in 10% extra ranged damage and other various talents to increase ranged dps and it’s a pretty clear cut favorite.