Yes the calculations do matter. Because for some weapons, these effects are effectively worthless.
And you are wrong about that, as it is literally the least trivial damage related bonus in the game.
Force swords are not mundane weapons, are they?
But they are one of the 4 weapon families that get the uncanny blessing.
Overall, it sounds a bit like you dislike most of the talents, perks and blessings in the game, since they do not come with a downside.
You should not use that reasoning to argue for the nerf of a specific blessing then.
They are not? So instead of that it would be better to add blessings that alternate special attack, change how weapon works, or just buff special not necessary via dmg output, but with cast speed or more charges per cast.
Yes, i donāt find most of them inspiring and lacking of fantasy. But i donāt like rend cause itās the worst of them, it trivializing the most dangerous enemies and FS keep adding that not only for weapons but in skill trees and it makes weapon homogeneous. I would to prefer to have more family-unique utility blessigns instead of just anti armor everywhere.
Like hitting ragers with neurotoxin soaking knife that makes them start vomiting blood - fun.
As i said several times - i wasnāt, my initial post was about mechanic as a whole.
You have said this, but you have not provided a single example.
Both folding shovels do not need rending to delete crushers.
Obscurus and Deimos force swords do not need it.
The duelling swords do not need it either.
But the regular shovel and the illisi force sword are hot garbage against crushers, without the blessing. And they are still not good against crushers with the blessing. They are just no longer effectively useless against them.
So in which case does the uncanny blessing trivialize crushers?
Do you mean knifes?
I donāt get what do you mean by mundane. Letās rephrase then, warhamnerish sci-fi weapons should have their specials as a main dmg source when dealing with heavy armored/bosses by utilizing special attacks. And so there are should be blessings that modifies and change how those attacks work.
Like longer you hold charge force sword button - bigger damage it will deal. Or charge gives you 2 stacks, with proprortional perril cost, but saves time cause only 1 cast animation per 2 uses. ect.
Having anti armor modifier as a blessing isnāt that interesting.
Again, why do you keep bringing uncanny, when my initial post was about mechanic overall.
In your world talents like Dominate and Rending Strike doesnāt exist? Those talents you can have despite running Shattering impact on your gun.
Yes cause itās OP. Guess what, if they will nerf DS base damage, people will slap rend on it. Itās mandatory, cause armored enemies are pinnacle danger, so people always will try to bring up rend.
Uncacanny is a symptom of bad mechanic, it doesnāt matter how good or bad it is. You always will be forced to take it if weapon sucks vs armor, because you have no motivation to build something specialized and niche at the same time being viable and bad agaisnt armor.
But you were the one bringing it up.
I simply asked, if force swords would be counted as mundane.
See name of the thread:
Also, you keep saying that rending trivializes the most dagerous enemies (by which i assume you mean crushers).
Uncanny provides 100% rending. You repeatedly argued for nerfing it.
So how does uncanny, which is the topic of this thread, trivialize crushers?
Please answer the question.
Mundane weapons(regular pieces of sharp metal on a stick) should be trash against heavy armored enemies
Yes, cause
you always will be forced to take rend if weapon sucks vs armor, because you have no motivation to build something specialized and niche at the same time being viable and bad agaisnt armor.
Mundane weapons should be trash against heavy armored enemies, they just need another coolstuff to be viable.
Get it? Regular weapon that sucks HARD against amored is fine to have if there will be any other HUGE benefit, and you will be not forced to minmax them with anti armor blessings.
I mean crushers, maulers, maybe ragers. They are currently not tho, cause how players are overbuffed, and there probably just should be more enemy types for each armor type.
Sry but you are being autistic at this point. Do you want me to say Uncanny doesnāt need a nerf? Ok, i never said it should be. I said that rend shouldnāt exist
If you are being triggered about i said that rend is bad mechanic that almost mandatory to have on every build aswell as itās uninspiring and occupies blessings mechanic, that could be something more interesting than damage stacking, in the thread that is about 1 particular rend blessing, then iām very sorry.
I canāt read all of the messages, but I havenāt seen anyone say this. I think having a high crit is better than having uncanny strike. It works on every enemy, and youāre still able to kill crushers and maulers in a few hits. Crits also activate a lot of talents on different classes, so that can be extra helpful.
Overall, since I believe uncanny strike is worse than having higher crit, I will have to say uncanny strikeās not OP, at least not as OP as high crit in my opinion.
Hello OxygenCrimson, Iām told 100% rending would lower the armor by one tier, unyielding to carapace, carapace to flak, flak to unarmored.
My question is, in a theoretical situation, ignoring the weakspot, crit chances etc., if I do 100 dmg to carapace, and 150 dmg to flak with a light attack, and I got 5x24% US stacked. What would my dmg be?
Critical rate is important for 2 classes, in my opinion: Zealot and psykers
For veteran, if you use a weapon with low finesse damage (example: sapper shovel), you donāt have to pay attention to the critical rate.
For Ogryns, except the right part of the tree, there is nothing in the talent tree that will permits you to go for critical hits. Also, the right part is about ranged weapons.
And I am sad that Invocation of death forces me to go for critical builds most of the time.
Uncanny strike should most definitely be tuned down a bit.
How much, however, depends on what else they do.
If rending and brittle in general were tuned down a bit (just a little, say, relative ~20%), then it could be changed more; as is, it fits into a scheme of balance where just minor changes are in order.
On knife light attacks, it is a nasty customer, on the standard shovel, it is an absolute must have to be able to fight crushers. Dueling sword, itās just nice to have.
What to change is also up for debate:
Iād love to have the effect reduced, but then also add a bit of brittleness (so repeat hits against the same enemy weaken it further). However, I expect a small decrease in total values so full lvl4 stacks are 80% instead of 120% to be a more likely approach.
It has basically the same end result, it just takes 2 seconds longer to get there.
Veteran has some insane crit talents like desperado and reciprocity, using those with crit blessings on the dueling sword, the knife, or any other weapon instead of uncanny would be better in my opinion.
I agree
But what I said is that veteran has no talent that triggers with a critical hits.
Something you see on zealot (a lot) and also on psyker (a lot)
For ogryn it is only the combination with good shoottinā and charmed reload on heavy stubberā¦ so not even in the talent tree.
But on veteran, I go for the right part of the tree with weapons that have a good finesse damages, cause going critical changes these weapons, or if I just want to go for stripping down (you just need duck and dive).
But, by example, I wonāt pick the right part of the tree with a sapper shovel. The only good talent would be Trench fighter drill (+10% melee attack speed) and I would spend 4 points just for thisā¦
I am not triggered about anything. I am simply trying to have a reasonable discussion.
Multiple people have offered their opinions, but so far, nobody was able to provide any arguments for nerfing this blessing, aside from variations of āi do not like itā and āi do not like how this game handles perks/blessings/talents in generalā.
No valid arguments have been made regarding this blessing causing balance issues, and nobody was able to mention any weapon that is ātoo strong against carapaceā because of this blessing.
Untill someone does, any suggestions to nerf this blessing should not be taken seriously.
Balance changes should be based on performance, not on the unfounded opinions of some random people on a forum.
Rending being a bad mechanic, is your subjective opinion. I disagree, because it provides a unique type of depth and interactions.
It is absolutely not almost mandatory for every build. What are you smoking?
I get what youāre saying about the unique blessings, I like it, but youāre in the wrong thread for that. But yes, I too would like some cool blessings that change how you think about using a weapon. Shock maul perfect block to stun? Rumbler sticky bombs? Force sword blocking bullets? HOWEVER, you use DRG overclocks as your example for interesting blessings, but the clean overclocks are just the boring stat boosts, not gonna dock any points off you, since theyāre easy to overlook when dealing with the flashier unstable overclocks
Mandatory maybe the wrong word. But rend is always net positive.
But it doesnāt.
If you build towards crowd control itās expected your damage wouldnāt be that high.
If you build towards horde clearing, itās expected you will lack dmg vs solo targets.
And vise versa.
But not with anti armor in DT rend just makes both bad and good weapons srtonger.
Running anti armor isnāt a niche role you choose to build that has downisdes, itās a homogenizing modifier so everything and everyong could be versatile.
Wouldnāt be a problem if classes were locked, but you end up being in a team of 4 where probably everyone running rend/brittleness on some of their weapons or tree talents despite they can clear hordes and deal with solo targets. So you end up melee elites live for a few seconds.
That is not how Rending works. What youāre describing (downgrading armour Carapace ā Flak ā Unarmored) is old mechanics of Zealotās Chastise the Wicked / Fury of the Faithful ability, but it has since been reworked to provide 100% Rending on next melee attack after using it instead.
Rending / Brittleness is simply added to the penetration of your weapon, up to 100%. So if your weapon did 30% damage against Carapace, and you had 20% Rending, it would now do 30% + 20% = 50% of itās base damage against Carapace. The interaction changes when going over 100% scaling, as all the additional Rending is divided by 4.
So if your weapon did 30% damage against Carapace, and you had 100% Rending thus bringing you to a total of 130%, the additional 30% over 100% would be reduced. Your weapon would now do 100% + (30/4)% = 107.5% damage against Carapace.
The base damage of the weapon is usually what you inflict on Unarmored targets. Rending affects Carapace, Flak, Maniac and Unyielding armour types but not Unarmored and Infested so even with 120% Rending your damage against eg. Poxwalkers wonāt change. There is also a hard cap of 100% Rending, and having more than that doesnāt do anything. The only meaningful source of Rending in the game that could give you more than 100% is Uncanny Strike IV though, so the hard cap is kinda irrelevant.
Happy to help, but since this is somewhat off-topic for further explanations just send me a direct message
Yes it does. This is not even up for discussion. I simply is factually the case.
Point out the issue with uncanny strike. Name specifics.
Do it.
Two shovels and two force swords are good against carapace, without uncanny.
Same goes for the duelling swords. No argument can be made for nerfing uncanny, based on those weapons.
One shovel and one force sword are abysmal against carapace without uncanny.
Even with uncanny fully stacked, they are still quite bad against carapace (although no longer totally useless) and it still takes a ton of hits to kill a crusher with these weapons.
So which weapons get too strong against armor, when using uncanny strike?
Which weapons lose their downside due to this blessing, and become overly versatile beasts that are great at everything?
Would you also argue that all cleave blessings have to be removed (or massively nerfed), because they make weapons too good against hordes?
What about any source of extra damage? Need to be nerfed, because they make weapons deal too much damage per hit?
Have you considered, that the illisi force sword and the regular shovel are not really great against anything, and that versatility is their whole point?
They can not compete with a heavy sword for horde clear, or with a thunder hammer, a pick axe or basically any other weapon, when it comes to crusher damage.
Yet somehow, you think that the weak anti armor capability that they have, is still too much and needs to be nerfed even more.
Deimos builds up Uncanny stacks during its special attack. Uncanny will often kill a Crusher in one less hit. In practice, though, I think there would seldom be a difference: Youāll get a crit, or a DoT or AoE attack finishes off the Crusher before you need to land the extra hit.
For normal attacks, an Illisi with Uncanny can kill much like a Deimos without. You can flail around with light attacks on Gunner, for example, and kill with an Uncanny Illisi much as you would with a Deimos.
Iād put Uncanny pretty far down the āNeeds to be changedā list. Its biggest sin, IMO, is that it does less to expand play-possibilities than it does to homogenize weapons.
(In general, Iād like the devs to take a look at the whole of the interaction between players and armor. I think itās too easy to get anti-armor capability without significantly sacrificing other capabilities.)
Rumbler sticky bombs? 
