It would be nice if the last balance patch wasn’t like a year and 2 months ago.
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I’m still hoping it’s something they’ll give this some priority once all the premium careers are out. I can see why they wouldn’t want to double dip there, but mmmaaaaannnn could we use some balance changes at this point
Please no. I really hope we don’t have to wait 8+ months for balance changes. I still really hope that we’ll get something this year.
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Yeah saltzs new career and even more powercreep 
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I’m gonna be so upset if the 4th Saltz career comes out nearly as busted as SotT. I love the dude and can’t wait for a new way to play him, gonna be so sad if he comes out and feels dirty to use. Would rather he was on the weak side as long as he feels distinct from his other 3 classes.
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Casual reminder to Fatshark that not all people are particular content with the changes of this mod.
Personally, I don’t want it to be implemented to the official realm or taken as basis for future balance patches. Balance changes which bring down at least the most irritating outliers like SotT/Moonfire Bow/Javelin/Coruscation Staff/… would be welcome though.
And yea, please make the next class more in line with the better balance of Outcast Engineer and not in line with the release of SotT.
What did you think of how the tourney onslaught mod handled those (not the changes generally, just the nerfs for these problematic elements)? 3 out of 4 of the things you mention were heavily nerfed in that mod, which itself uses this mod as a basis. I feel that’s rather the advantage of this mod creating a more even baseline. It’s easier to then look at the bigger problems in isolation… not to mention this mod itself is already a significant nerf to WHC and Shade, which is warranted IMO.
I know we’re not all going to see eye to eye on how this mod tackles the unevenness created by the vanilla thp/stagger talents, but I think there’s a lot we all agree on regarding what the biggest problems are. At very least when using this mod I felt like I was picking weapons based off their own properties, not how they align with the specific thp/stagger talents assigned to that character. It was an enormously refreshing experience in that regard.
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I think the idea behind the mod is good, but this mod is very unpolished. All of the updates and tweaks we’ve made to balance stuff out and fix some issues has been done in the tourney balance mod. So, if FS is gonna take this idea, they just need to make sure to do some polishing.
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Which parts of this particular mod are you dissatisfied with, just for curiosity? Did the actual stagger/thp talents get changed and in the onslaught tourney mod? I honestly can’t remember which changes happened in which mod.
Haha same. But I remember some stuff like we reverted how stagger thp was calculated back to live because it was OP. Also might have tuned down headshot crit a little bit (Ik we did at some point) and fixed some niche issues like bill hook special giving 7 thp. Also, we still need to fix stagger thp for bashes. We wanted to tune them down but they’re currently really bad so that needs some tweaking.
All the stagger damage talents seem fine.
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I don’t think we agree all on what the biggest problems are. I wouldn’t share the design philosophy which has been taken as basis for the mod and also not the goal it tries to reach. As such there is not much to discuss in that regard. If you still have a burning passion to discuss we can shift this to PMs.
I have no interest in the modded realm as such I skipped playtesting the tourney mod as it was intended to adress modded play. I read through it once or twice but lost motivation after reading of unneeded buffs. But again, as this was for the modded realm where I have no knowledge of the buffs might make sense, they didn’t for the official realm though. If there is interest from your side, I can read through it and discuss it with you on a theoretical base in PMs, at least for the stuff I have enough familiarity with.
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tbf this is true of literally any given proposed change; I’m sure there’s a teeny tiny group of people who think wobble is a good thing…Still, to date of all feedback we’ve received over the last 4 months across 2 different mods with these changes there’s only 2 people I’ve seen which actually dislike the changes proposed in the mod conceptually regarding THP and instead the differing points are on details that may or may not need polishing rather than the goals of the mod generally.
And as Zara said we also nerfed a bunch of the outliers in the tourney mod so I would suggest looking into that if you care to at all. At this point I feel we could make a mod that fixes every crash in the game and you’d call it powercreep or something lmao
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Of course it is true for any given propsed change. However, it is still important to mention this. Because you have literally only received feedback from modded realm players. And it is far spread and known issue that Modded Realm players favour a particular playstyle which is 100 % reflected in these mods. As such you should not look at the feedback you did receive as it is - per definition - mostly limited to the people who naturally agree with the mod.
You should look of the feedback which is missing, nameley people who dislike the changes. Who - also by nature - will not test out the mod and give feedback because they disagree with the basis. Also the missing feedback of people who are not playing modded realm - like the absolute majority -of the playership - is something which Fatshark should keep in mind. I mean if the changes are well-liked by modders anyway why not keep it simply as mod instead of pressing it to official realm. And the tourney mod is for modded realm, I see no point in trying that out. Modded players are free to do what they want in there.
There are arguments to be made for Stagger and THP talents to make them less effective and offering a broader variety of playstyle especially since Fatshark made some mistakes by the last minute transitions at their release. However, regarding all forums this is of very low priority right now and many people mainly wish for a list of sweeping nerfs and nothing more.
I am all for bringing down outliers but not at the cost of more unneeded buffs, not at the cost of a worse THP talent system and not at the cost of a worse and playstyle decreasing Stagger Talent system which goes away from the initial design philosophy by Fatshark.
All I am here to do, is express my opinion that the base design philosophy is not well chosen and that by differences on such a fundamental level, most discussion appears pointless. Also, not sure what that last line is for. Seems unnecessary to make this personal.
It was just a casual reminder.
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That doesn’t sound right, shouldn’t they look at the more finished version and then choose to implement this one instead? I think that would help set up the single balance patch for 2022 much better.
What does this even mean? What is the universal modded realm playstyle?
I don’t mean to be rude, but this is always a nonsense argument. No-one here has any idea what the people who chose not to give feedback think. If people choose to not respond (or even to read changes), their opinion just doesn’t exist. Non-respondents to a survey are just non-respondents, you don’t get to assign them an opinion lol
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But there’s a silent majority of players who prefer having things like THP on kill for BW. We cannot discount that opinion.
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Which is exactly the point I make. The feedback given is extremely limited by only modded players. This is always a problem on the Fatshark forum (to a lesser extent the Steam forum). It is a problem for theoretical discussions already and it is even worse on feedback based on mods. It is very limited more than any other feedback which is already limited. It is like presenting your new meat-free receipt to your vegetarian friends. The result is obvious from the get-go.
That doesn’t however mean that their opinion doesn’t exist. It means that they didn’t voice it or even don’t know this happened.
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not personal, just pointing out your takes are contrarian at best
this appeal to some sort of silent majority is one example, especially seeing as we got a lot of feedback from official realm players.
Modded realm isn’t a monolith and this is a non-argument
so you haven’t tested the mod, you acknowledge that you don’t understand if the changes are sensible or not, yet you still slip in “unneeded” despite the former acknowledgements.
idk what to tell you bud, it’s contrarianism at this point
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Effectively, it does for any discussion of the information at hand. There was absolutely nothing stopping them giving an opinion on the mod, or doing so now. You can’t assign a belief to a group that didn’t respond, that’s just not how it works. For all we know they could be even more supportive of the changes.
It seems most likely to me that the more casual elements of the playerbase wouldn’t really know enough to give great feedback for this sort of thing anyway. All you’d need from them is information about whether or not they think there are balance issues, the opinion of a legend (or lower) pub on the merits of particular solutions just isn’t worth much (even less when they don’t offer it).
This isn’t meant as a personal attack, but feedback that includes this level of quality is just not really worth listening to
This sort of feedback is on the same level as people who go into surveys and just pick options at random, or in a pattern across the entire thing. That is to say, it’s excluded from any analysis because they didn’t actually engage with the questions at all.
Frankly I think it’s also just disrespectful to not even bother reading through the changelog of a large project you’re being so harsh on, in much the same way as it is for survey respondents to just put down junk data.
I’m also still very unclear what you mean by the modded realm playstyle?
True, I do love getting like 50thp a match, not sure the game would be the same without that option.
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If they do not voice it then thats on them, on a grander scale thats a bit like not voting in an election, but as for the unaware…well it would be sensible to not just outright add the mod as is but do one of those “opt-in beta patches” that we´ve had.
That gives everyone a clear heads up about what´s going on, and if they do not say anything even then, then that´s that.
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I don’t really want to get into this whole debate, but I wanted to point out that this is how it works. I would never advocate for just releasing it into the base game as it’s going to be bugged and all kinds of stuff. Having a beta allows a much larger player base to access changes and give feedback. Adjustments can be made accordingly. Testing things on modded realm is more like putting together a focus group. Overwhelmingly positive reviews from the focus group make it a candidate for a larger rest imo. Great point to bring up, Frosty, as it addresses many of the concerns Adelion has about modded bias.
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