Thoughts on powercreep and the future of darktide

[Murderer]

Go look at the changes made to Ogryn weapons and some of the human weapons they buffed in this patch and tell me this is just “one value changing”

I’ll save you the effort, here:

Cleaver changes

@FatsharkStrawHat

Cleavers

We significantly increased the damage of the Special punch, meaning it can now be used as an actual attack in combos, opening up effectively new attack chains.

While the damage against more heavily armoured enemies remains low, the Special uppercut will still be a reliable tool to stagger any target due to its high Impact values.

For all three marks, we fine-tuned the chain timings of different actions and increased the offensive properties of the Strikedown and Vanguard profiles.

We also slightly improved the dodge distance and speed and the timings related to Block and Push to make the weapon snappier.

For the Krourk Mk VI, we changed the Light 2 damage profile from Strikedown to Vanguard, which gave a small speed increase to the Heavy attacks, but also added a bespoke Heavy Strikedown attack chained only from Push.

This attack chains into Light 3 / Heavy 1, granting the weapon a new short but useful single target combo.

For the Bull Butcher Mk III, we changed the Pushfollow attack damage profile from Light Vanguard to Light Strikedown and added a unique Light Strikedown Stab chained only from the Pushfollow attack.

The new Light Strikedown Stab has a power level multiplier of 550 and chains into Light 1 / Heavy 1, for a quick and easy to use single target combo.

The Krourk Mk IV was already in a good spot after the overall changes to the weapon family, so we only slightly increased the power level multiplier of the Pushfollow attack to make it more useful as the opener for a horde control combo.

Detailed Changes - Cleavers

Damage Profiles

• Special Uppercut
  • 1st target
    • damage from (30,70) to (190,290).
  • Removed 4th target.
  • Added adm table for targets 1 to 3:
    • adm vs Flak from 0.75 to 0.6
    • adm vs Unyielding from 1.0 to 0.2
    • adm vs Maniac from 0.5 to 0.7
    • adm vs Carapace from 0.1 to 0.05
    • adm vs Void shield from 1.5 to 1.0.
  • Added Impact armour mod table for targets 1 to 3:
    • mod vs Maniac from 0.5 to 0.7
    • mod vs Void shield from 1.5 to 1.0
  • Ragdoll push force from 400 to 500.
• Light Strikedown
  • Cleave from (2,8) to double_cleave ((2.0,4.0)).
  • 1st target
    • Damage from (100,200) to (120,240)
    • adm vs Maniac from 0.5 to 0.8
    • adm vs Carapace from 0.05 to 0.25
    • Finesse boost vs Unarmoured from 0.5 to 0.6.
  • 2nd target
    • adm vs Carapace from no.damage to 0.1
    • Damage from (40,80) to (50,100).
• Light Strikedown Stab
  • Cleave from (2,8) to double_cleave ((2.0,4.0)).
  • 1st target
    • adm vs Unarmoured from 1.0 to 1.25
    • adm vs Maniac from 0.75 to 0.8.
  • 2nd target
    • adm vs Carapace from no.damage to 0.1
    • Damage from (40,80) to (50,100).
• Heavy Strikedown
  • 1st target
    • Damage from (200,400) to (210,410).
    • Finesse multiplier from 0.25 to 0.55
      • Finesse boost vs Unarmoured from 0.1 to 0.9
      • Finesse boost vs Flak from 0.5 to 0.35
      • Finesse boost vs Unyielding from 0.1 to 0.5
      • Finesse boost vs Maniac from 0.1 to 1.0
      • Finesse boost vs Carapace from 0.1 to 0.35
      • Finesse boost vs Infested from 0.25 to 1.0.
• Light Vanguard
  • 1st target
    • Finesse multiplier from 0.25 to 0.55.
• Heavy Vanguard
  • 1st target
    • Adm vs Maniac from 0.75 to 0.8.
    • Adm vs Carapace from 0.2 to 0.3.
    • Finesse multiplier from 0.25 to 1.0; added finesse boost tweaks:
      • Finesse boost vs Unarmoured 1.0
      • Finesse boost vs Flak armour 0.3
      • Finesse boost vs Unyielding 0.4
      • Finesse boost vs Maniac 1.2
      • Finesse boost vs Carapace armour 1.1
      • Finesse boost vs Infested 0.7
      • Finesse boost vs Void shield 0.25.

All Marks

• Improved dodge template
  • distance scale from (0.8,1.0) to (0.8,1.1)
  • speed modifier from (0.9,0.9) to (0.9,1.0).
• Block action minimum hold time from 0.3 to 0.2.
• Push chain time from Block from 0.25 to 0.15.
• Added buffer time 0.3 for the Wield input.
• Wield action total time from 0.1 to 0.2.
• Removed chain to Special from Wield action.
• Start attack chain time from Wield from 0 to 0.1.
• Start attack chain time from Special from 0.7 to 0.6.
• Unwield chain time from Special from 0 to 0.6.
• Block chain time from Special from 0.55 to 0.7.
• Added Allowed during sprint to most attacks.
• Added Special uppercut hitstop animation.
• Updated attack gestalts in the Inspect menu.

Krourk Mk VI Cleaver

• Added new attack start chain from Push, chaining into Light 1 / bespoke vertical Heavy Strikedown.
  • The new Heavy Strikedown has power level multiplier 550 and chains into Light 3 / Heavy 1.
• Heavy 1 windup from 0.65 to 0.55.
• Heavy 1 and Heavy 2 time scale from 1.2 to 1.3 (sped up).
• Slightly increased the Heavy 2 damage window end timing.
• Light 2 damage profile from Strikedown to Vanguard.
• Start attack and Block chain times from Pushfollow from 0.7 to 0.6.
• Pushfollow hitbox slightly lowered to be more aligned with animation and crosshair.
• Start attack chain time from Push from 0.5 to 0.45.

Bull Butcher Mk III Cleaver

• Pushfollow attack damage profile from light Vanguard to light Strikedown.
  • Pushfollow attack power level multiplier 450.
• Added a new attack start chain from Pushfollow attack, chaining into bespoke Light Strikedown Stab / Heavy 2.
  • The new Light Strikedown Stab has power level multiplier 550 and chains into Light 1 / Heavy 1.
• Start attack chain time from Pushfollow attack from 0.4 to 0.45.
• Block chain time from Pushfollow attack from 1.05 to 0.75.

Krourk Mk IV Cleaver

• Block chain time from Pushfollow attack from 0.85 to 0.75.
• Added power level multiplier 525 to the Pushfollow attack.

This is not just “buffing one value” and this is what’s required to make a weapon good. Do you honestly and seriously believe they should “just do this” for 10x more weapons than they actually have to? They have to do this to every single weapon to bring it up to dueling sword level? You are insane