If you do not elaborate fatshark wont know what you are feeling is wrong you know? Saying that “something is wrong” but not what wont help.
I personally think the only real upside she has on him is her melee by virtue of weapons with more baseline power®en but if comparing longbows i honestly cant really find any aspects where she does much better.
The career itself? I mean, aside from suffering from the scourge that is merc&GK getting all the melee weapons nerfed i cant figure…maybe the manbow being clunky i suppose? That is true.
But talking longbows in general, i mean, Sienna has builds that oneshot stormvermin on bodyshots and bounty saltz does it with his crossbow too, with equal range and similar firing speeds.
Sure but I don’t really consider that an objective problem.
That could easily be fixed by buffing headshot related talents.
If the idea is to make headshots more accessible, maybe them talents could be procced via melee headshots. Perhaps an additional passive that counts all crits as true headshots.
(A chance based approach rather than guaranteed free headshots)
Huntsman certainly does not need an entire rework, just tweaks.
He’s plenty strong right now anyway, with the right build headshots aren’t even necessary.
Out of curiosity, what exactly do you mean? The lack of ranged steroids aside from her second row or how her final row only really has 1 choice? Or something else?
Never really seen that as an issue. But yes, the final row talent selection and majority of her ammunition sustain being tied to it leads to a bottleneck or coaxed pick.
She is far from weak but her kit is a mess in general.
But I did it, more times and in more threads… rather someone accused me of spam XD
At this moment, simply, I don’t desire repeat the same things. Original poster spoke strictly about the bow, and I gave my motivated opinion about it… now I don’t think I need to write a wall of text about HS vs WS… I did, now I don’t feel like it.
I mean, I think the opposite… a career based on headshot who doesn’t reward them in a correct way it’s a big issue.
Then we can talk about tweaks or a rework, these are just words… the important thing is that there are certain aspects to “tune”.
But there also are “less objective” problem… for example I would like a better synergy with no-headshots weapons: lv20 tier has only headshot based talents… or again certain meh talents, the ult itself… maybe one day I will open a proper thread.
So just blunderbuss? Handgun, Repeater Handgun and Empire Longbow can all score headshots fine. (Rep Handgun especially after the recent animation changes update)
Proccing them talents via crits or melee headshots like I suggested above would remedy that issue.
Buffing said talents would remedy the reward issue, simple fixes.
Eh i just feel underwhelmed by ranged career that kind only has 1 talent choice for it aside from things that affect her ultimate, but yeah there is no really big problem i suppose. Aside from her final row as you mentioned.
The statement about her kit being a mess though, the ult talents being are part of that i´d guess but you´ve got anything else in mind?
Level 25 row is pretty dead, level 30 row has one main coaxed choice.
Level 10 row is fine.
Level 20 row and her main passive Amaranthe seem quite separated from the rest of her kit and her ranged career identity. Something more interactive to play around would be nice and probably benefit her character.
Aight so i double checked your earlier recap, and well,…yeah it all boils down to the fact that huntsman has better steroids to feed into his bow than waystalker does hers. Some of which makes his boss damage notably far better when the heads are exposed, not that either of them will really shoot when dealing with a spawn/ogre since it´s a waste of ammo for the longbows more than otherwise.
As for waystalker being better at dealing with berserkers i mean… on bodyshots sure i guess? But i could just raise bowman being better at chaos warriors and some bosses instead to call it even. If huntsman had no downsides relative to waystalker while keeping his upsides then he´d be overpowered relatively speaking.
Thanks for clarifying, and yep i agree. Ammo regen system needs a change, ult CDR on the lvl 20 row needs to go, as does ricochet.
And the entire lvl 15 that deals in regen options can honestly go out the window too but i am not opposed to her keeping the regen passive. Being resistant to chip damage is honestly a very pleasant feeling regardless of which career.
Doubly so perhaps when enemies have a tendency of being silent or spawning behind you, had the dubious pleasure of a horde with packmaster doing that just a couple of hours ago.
But instead of the present lvl 15 row id like either either another row that affects ranged performance(not wrong for a ranged career) or even a melee focused row. That in the name of her being a long lived elite with plenty of time to learn both shooting and melee skills(characteristically fitting).
The Outcast Engineer update revamped a lot of animations.
Rep Gun recoil is far more manageable, it’s very accurate when standing still too, scoring headshots is pretty easy now.
It’s not only about “how much it’s easy”, but also cost/return ration… for example, focusing on Rep Gun and lv20 talents:
hs improves reload speed… it would work (if works) 1 time on 8;
hs gives +25% crit chance… crit or not, Rep Gun kills always in 2-3 hits… it’s not that worth invest time and risk to aim heads when I can just spam headshot;
hs gives tHP… apart that I think it’s a bad talent regardless all… you can exploit it with the bow, wich can spam arrows vs a corridor horde without the need to control the recoil/slow down the rate of fire.
Anyway I think I said enough… I stop here, mate. Best regards.
I’d be okay with Huntsmen getting a 25% headshot damage bonus increase passive, so that he at least matches WHC in this regard (could be for ranged only if it’s too much for melee).
I think he’s fine overall though. His highest natural synergy is with the Longbow and the Handgun, which is fitting, while his dps potential with a Blunderbuss is very high, and with the Repeater Handgun you can cosplay a Ratling gun. He’s got a few talents that don’t get picked often, like Burst of Enthusiasm, Longshanks and Head Down and Hidden, but the rest of his talents are strong.
One of the good things about the Longbow is it lets you go full melee build with Smiter without having to worry about headshot breakpoints.
It’s most often used for activating Hunter afaik. 50% headshot bonus damage, Smiter and Hunter and you’ve got a Huntsmen that is very competent in melee as well as range, at the cost of having to land headshots. This lets the Mace 2 shot headshot SV with heavies without having to give up attack speed.
Huntsmen can be a bit slow though, which is the only issue I experience when playing him. Requires more careful play with your range.
True, but I mean… you have to score an headshot (that with Rep Gun isn’t that easy as with Bow/Handgun)… then you have to hope that % works… then you have to find another enemy with the same armor tier (within 10 seconds)… it’s not easier and more efficient spam bodyshots? I think that Rep Gun is meant for that… I respect your opinion, mate, but I can’t consider it a weapon with a good headshots synergy.
Then we can also add Smiter… I’m not against a better melee options, but I would like that next changes are focused on ranged.
p.s anyway I would like to see different bonus than another flat “+ headshot damage”… the damage is already enough to 1 headshot kills everything (CW apart)… rather it’s pretty overkill (in the wasted, unused sense), since also a simple Elf Bow or Crossbow’s arrow is enough to reach the same achievements…
… sure, it would help melee fight… but I think here tastes join the discussion… because I would prefer, as said, changes focused on ranged gameplay… but legit pov.
To be fair, there are a variety of cata breakpoints that waystalker hits with her longbow that manbow either can’t even touch or just ties her on (when using 20% chaos/20% infantry and barrage, which is what I use when I play her):
WS can kill an assassin with an unaimed bodyshot, while HS needs a level 2 charged shot.
WS can kill marauders with aimed bodyshots, as can Huntsman with a level 2 charge.
WS can kill maulers with 2 consecutive bodyshots, while HS needs 2 level 2 shots.
They both can kill clan rats and fanatics with one quickshot.
WS kills SV or Bestigor with one aimed headshot, while HS requires level 2.
WS and HS can kill casters with a level 1 charged shot (this one is actually about equal effectiveness).
So considering the above, we can safely say that due to Waystalker’s bleed damage, elfbow charged shots are roughly equivalent to manbow level 2 charged shots in damage. However, elfbow on WS also comes with twice the accuracy, roughly 2.5x the fire rate, 33% more max ammo, and much more effective ammo sustain built into Waystalker’s kit. And for all these downsides, Huntsman gets…more chaos warrior damage. I definitely don’t feel like they are punching in the same weight class.
I want to reiterate though, that I’d be willing to deal with all of this if they simply just made manbow more accurate and perhaps made zoom a toggleable option and called it a day. I don’t want them to buff manbow to OP levels, but I would like them to iron out its wrinkles.
I more or less understand and agree with what you bring up until this point but an addendum is the fact that huntsman does notably better on bosses with exposed heads, similarly to CW´s. And being better at dealing with multiple CW´s at the same time isnt bad either, nor is being able to stealth out of a really bad spot i´d say.
I personally agree that something like the zoom could be improved, it is largely the biggest source of clunkiness the manbow suffers from. But having it be toggleable i am unsure about given that that is one of waystalkers overall main perks.
Her high accuracy and ability to “zoom” better than the rest, that is what justifies her being unable to oneshot say stormvermin or maulers on bodyshots when BH, dwarf guns, and some Sienna builds can do it.
So for manbow perhaps it´d be better to just give it a decent fixed zoom level, a somewhat faster charging speed (Kruber would not be silly enough to use a bow he can barely draw) but keep the reload speed(Him being able to draw the bow does not mean he moves any faster normally).
(Edit “And make his ability not jumble is aim” - End of edit)
The zoom is still meh and personally would prefer it to be closer to how elfs bow works. Otherwise the weapon itself is viable enough, just slapped into a career that could maybe use tweak here and there.
I think the beauty of Manbow is being able to combo different charge levels.
If something doesn’t die from a level 2 charge, one more quick shot usually does the trick.
The introduction of Pseudo crits has lead to more Manbow fun too, Huntsman can easily manipulate it to somewhat guarantee crits.
Adding attack speed to Thrill of The Hunt might make it more appealing for Rep Gun and usable on Manbow builds.
Makin’ it Look Easy is fine, it can be manipulated with pseudo crits leading to more crits per game than a BH.
Burst of Enthusiasm, I would happily see this go in favour of cooldown on headshot or something more interesting like Bl3 Jakobs effect (Headshots ricochet one shot to another target)
Manbow QoL changes like accuracy/zoom level, full charge cleave increase and perhaps timing changes.
As for making Huntsman more accessible, returning VT1 Skull Cracker could work.
e.g Ranged critical hits count as true headshots.
The Pseudo crit system should balance it and ensure struggling players eventually get an auto headshot.
Skilled players running a max crit chance, Makin’ it Look easy build would also be rewarded.
(Players that don’t miss shots would essentially have a 1 in 4 auto headshot/crit. Missing a critical shot would mean needing to score another headshot or crit to keep up the chain)
I don’t like the idea of auto headshots but this method could work without being cheesy and actually reward players that don’t miss, it would also involve players investing heavily in crit chance to make proper use out of it.
