So things that were horrendously broken before traitor’s curse pt2:
Gunners having infinite stagger resist and ignoring melee engagement.
Non-maelstrom AI Director treating basically everything like it is maelstrom.
Trappers being able to instantly trap you after having been staggered or missing if you hit them/having near-infinite stagger resist while in reload or shooting animation.
Ragers having way too much HP and being essentially immune to stagger while attacking.
Chain-weapons and Thunder-hammers not being able to reach two-tap break points after the elite HP increase.
(meme)The revolver.
(meme)Shovel dodge range.
Things no longer broken from that list:
Everything but gunners ignoring melee engagement mechanic, they still do this, fix this.
The shovel dodge range is a shame, please give it a middle-group between the bugged dodge range it had and the now terrible dodge range it has (I’m thinking +7.5% at 80%).
The new revolver having a speed-loader begs the question why doesn’t the old one?
You used to be able to dodge while sawing with chain weapons, now it cancels. Please change the cancel saw interaction to be pressing the special button while sawing so we can saw and dodge again.
Yup. Used to be able to, now it cancels it. Yes, I know it is what they said in the notes. I disagree with the implementation of the ability to cancel sawing.
That is by design, you are not meant to keep sawing while dodging, your weapon stays in place so you would either have to abandon the weapon or make the smallest “dodge movements” in order to move but still have the grip to rip it out of the enemy. Both are not feasible so they corrected the mistake by letting it auto detach instead of keeping you in place.
And I FIRMLY disagree with that. You have been able to dodge while sawing since release. Enemies have only gotten stronger since that point. This is not a balance thing, don’t be one of those loyal dogs that just takes whatever the master tosses to them. It is okay to want more and we deserve more.
Irrelevant, real world logic has zero place in this game, the thunder hammers exist and explosive barrels don’t blow you apart. The flamer would have seen a big buff since they massively buffed enemy fire damage but it has received no changes in several patches. Realism is not what drives changes in this game.
I kindly ask that you not try to bring real-world logic as an argument to support a change.
At present, the timing feels weird. Dodging/sawing mutants sometimes works, sometimes doesn’t. I’ll say it’s probably just because I’m not used to it
If I want to truly dodge (as opposed to the old tethered dodge), a second input isn’t intuitive - when a Crusher is winding up an attack, my thought process isn’t going to be “First, disengage the weapon. Second, dodge”, it’s gonna be “gotta dodge that”.
While currently a little jarring, it’s been 3 days since the patch was released. Give it time for the adjustment to sink in, before looking for change/a rollback. I’m not sure I want to go back to “You’re locked into this from action”, but I don’t want to dismiss the current implementation without giving it a fair shot.
Right… and before you could do that. The ONLY scenarios I ever wanted to be able to disengage the saw was “Oh no a monstrosity!” or “Oh no, a burster!” everything else I could just dodge at the right time to avoid. Now if I dodge I lose out on damage, no other weapon group has to make that decision sans force-swords but even then it is only two of three.
Now I just find myself not bothering with the special because I dodge all the time. Because that is how the game is played on higher difficulties. There are too many enemies all wanting to swing at you to not be constantly dodging so this is just a complete nerf of the special.
To clarify, when you dodge while your saw is in an enemy, it pulls your saw out correct? Because that is how i read it and honestly that’s a buff in most cases where you would need to dodge and it makes sense that if the backstep 5 feet that the saw is not in the enemy. Just because its been in the game since the beginning doesn’t mean it wasn’t always on the chopping block, there was just about 637 other things more important than saw mechanics. I appreciate being able to just dodge to break off if i need to deal with a higher priority. @Dumlefudge I haven’t noticed any issues with dodging a mutant and tossing a saw in them as they pass, is it just not applying all the damage sometimes or is a hit tracking thing?
It’s hard to say exactly what the sequence of events was (as in, when did I attack/land the hit relative to when I dodged), but the revved attack would latch then immediately release from the mutant. Like I said, I feel like it’s mainly a timing thing - hard to say for certain, but I don’t want to call it a bug without more conclusive testing.
Hmm ok, I haven’t noticed that happening with my chain sword, it seems to latch the same and kill a mutant with a light attack revved saw, I can’t remember if it unlatches after they get a certain distance though, I haven’t used that character in a bit so I also would need to take a look at it.
I haven’t noticed anything related to distance being a problem. I’ve been able to latch and kill passing mutants, just like before. I feel like what I’ve always done is dodge then swing but I really don’t remember, and I haven’t played in a few days so I am unsure of how I’ve executed the input lately.
I don’t think it’s anything to be concerned about, PEBKAC most likely and all that’s needed is time to adjust.
Can confirm Gunners will still point-blank blast you, so they are not engaging in melee properly, only happens sometimes though. Reapers do the same, which is super annoying cus they will snapshot you and then lock you into the stagger, but it also doesn’t happen much at all for Reapers. As for Ragers, I think my only problem with them is when you dodge backwards before they hit but their attacks still hit and stagger even from outside all my melee weapons range, super annoying, I dont know why people think you should be able to stagger them in melee, they are designed to be almost un-staggerable and dealt with quickl, just like plague monks and berserkers in vt2. The Ogryn can stagger them but thats about it from what ive seen which is by design. I know you know this but i was adding onto the point for people who dont know. The infinite melee range thing is not something i remember from VT2 so im curious if anyone else has notcied that.Being able to stagger trappers now is nice.
Did you not pay attention to the content of the entire post dude? I KNOW those things have changed that was the point of the post.
This is a feedback topic as in “Hey those things we said needed changing? Yeah here are the things that changed and were those changes enough or too much or are some of them still bad.”
Ragers are 95% in a good place, they have just enough stagger resit to not instantly stagger from lighter weapons but do stagger from stuff like thunder hammer and heavy evicerator or energized power sword…or ogrynweapons. Things you would expect them to work on. Likewise the combination of buffs to the chain weapon initial special hit and nerf to rager HP means they now more consistently die to one special attack from the evicerator and thunderhammer (TH still struggles with the other untouched enemies though).
That 5% is due to the phantom range and seemingly lingering hurtbox their attacks have.
Yeah, after writing that i got the stagger from a heavy weapon and remember that the bigger ones work too, besides Ogryn stuff. The phantom hits are really my only issue with them, if people have such a problem with them, bring stuff to deal with them. I run a zealot with a heavy sword or heavy eviscerator and they are pretty easy to deal with as long a full patrol of 10 of them aren’t only attacking me and that still is dealable after i figure out theres more than a handful.