The Vermintide 2 identity crisis: action game....... or rpg

DISCLAIMER: if i sound angry or bitter etc know its from my love and passion for the game, not from hatred of the devs or anything like that.

First of all, i love this game, its a massive improvement over vermintide 1 especially since they embraced the rpg side of things adding classes etc.

but… what is this game actually supposed to be?

its advertised as an action rpg with classes, levels and weapon raritys, so all the core parts of an rpg game like borderlands and diablo/path of exile and all the great rpg games that we all know and love. so this should be a fresh rewarding experience as there are few melee based fps rpg games of high quality, right?

so why are all the rpg parts so underwhelming? why are the talents so boring and non-game-changing? why are legendary weapons doing nothing to builds other than “here is a +2% cooldown reduction” that nobody wants???

there are FAR too many questonable decisions that look soooo much like ubisofts the division… a game claiming to be an rpg that just pissed off rpg fans and took 2+ years of further development to begin looking like an rpg.

considering all the outcry about particular parts of the game and all the nerfs etc, this just looks like vermintide 1 all over again, an action game with just enough rpg elemnets to say its an action rpg!
meanwhile all the rpg elemnts get slowly nerfed and watered down into something that rpg fans dont want anything to do with so there goes a chunk of players…

we want BUILD DIVERSITY!!! people who see the rpg in this game and want it because of that are getting a little screwed here as the appeal is creating wacky builds and experimenting with diff talents and weapons…we have so many talents that essentially change nothing in your build but just makes it a little easier and its the same with legendary weapons.

.where is a legendary fire sword for sienna that has a 50% chance of a heavy burn attack that can spread to a nearby enemy?

.where is a legendary ring with a % chance that grants its wearer a protective shield when taking damage?

.where is a legendary hagbane bow that has a chance to blind enemies?

.where is a legendary dual axe for the slayer that regens his health the more damage he takes like salvador from borderlands 2?

.where is a end game class changing talent like sienna unchained, “the explosion is no longer 1 blast but a series of 5 blasts over 5 seconds” changing what her ult actually does!!! i.e rpg!!!

just SOMETHING DIFFERENT!!! atm it seems most of the community is in agreement that the core game is FANTASTIC!!! it really really is.

but the rpg elements are no where near done to reach the full potential this awesome game has.

lastly tho… the dlc policy is soooo god damn dissapointing! your level design is some of the best i think, i really do like it so no problem with making more of them… but to offer map packs in an RPG!!! that is just more maps, is just a waste of potential profit. rpg games make lots of money with healthy playerbases cos they offer VALUE FOR MONEY!!!

2 maps for cash in an rpg is not gona make anyone feel like they “NEED” it. we need maps with weapons and level cap increases and new characters etc that make you feel like you are missing out on the full experience without them.

dlc with real substance, you know?

dlc plans like borderlands 2 adds so much extra content, the players love it and the devs continue making lots of money… WIN/WIN for all :smiley:

also the progression is too condensed that there is no true endgame high lvl content as the difficultys are too few, maybe if the cap was 50 and each diff was built around power level with more of a push into the next diff i.e veteren is lvl 10+ and to play recruit at that level would be pointless we may see fewer lvl 30 playing recruit lol, look at borderlands overpower system or diablo 3 and its torment system.

it seems the range of power is so low that you are having to nerf EVERYTHING and thats just annoying everyone at this point

TLDR: FATSHARK… please get your design team to sit down and binge some borderlands or something to get an idea on what power progression should feel like in the “best” action rpg games.

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Some of us play the game to complete missions. Ie. some of us play the game for the content that involves actual gameplay. To us the substance is the gameplay, not the skinner box tacked on top of it.

As for roleplaying, I sometimes call people in chat “dawri” as the dwarf, but that is the extent of roleplaying I am doing in Vermintide, so to me Vermintide is not a roleplaying game. It’s advertised as a coop action game and that’s the way I play it.

I think well executed maps are premium content and are the bread and butter of the game. Ergo map packs are very welcome DLCs. Would very much dislike skinner box DLCs (with new loot tiers, or grindable “epic” weapons).

I’d generally prefer if VT stuck to the action side of things: Here’s a sword. There are many like it, but this one is yours. Now learn to use it to best kill rats. Does it make you regen like Wolverine™ when you get hit? No, so learn to not get hit.

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I think this is exactly what they’re trying to avoid, to be honest. And I agree with them. The RPG elements in Vermitide 2 are icing on the action-coop cake, not the other way around. As soon as anything from the RPG is “game changing”… then you change the game. That’s simply not what Vermintide is about.

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to call the current RPG Elements “icing” is an insult to all sorts of Cake Icing imho… there is plenty work to do with many open construction sites in the game, imho.

For example the lack of Trophies (A tool tip mentiones/Mentioned that you can showcase "trophies"i n the keep), the portraits… the lack of transparity in regards of the stats. The usefulness, or should i say Uselessness, of some weapons and traits…

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there’s nothing RPG about this game. there’s no decisions to make no npc’s to talk to what are you talking about? its literally melee focused left 4 dead put that blunt out and think about what you’re saying

this is an action rpg game, the rpg is from the mechanics of loot, levels and talents. the rpg is not from talking to npc’s.

i will keep the blunt i think :smiley:

i would agree with you honestly… but they advertised classes and skill trees etc, they are the ones that said “this game is now an action rpg” and thats why there is alot of complaints about the rpg side… cos its so underdeveloped.

right now its action rpg, so there are action fans like you, and rpg fans like me. now they just need to finish the rpg part. so all of us are happy!

“so learn to not get hit”
i was gona reply fully but after reading that , there is no point lol.

Why? It’s an action game: learning game mechanics should be more important than getting a sword imbued with Wolverine’s™ life essence.

“this game is now an action rpg”

Can you give us an actual quote with a source?

rpg side… cos its so underdeveloped.

You do know RPGs are not about swords that splash damage or trinkets that make you regenerate. Some RPGs have those, but they are not what RPGs are about. RPGs are about playing a character and stats are there to help reflect that character against the game world.

dude, it says it on the steam page… and if you cant tell what rpg mechanics are, why are you commenting on official feedback forums with zero knowledge?

also rpg is a vague term, its used in many different sub-genres so to try and define what rpg actually means is pointless.

Dude, can you cite that for me.

if you cant tell what rpg mechanics are, why are you commenting on official feedback forums with zero knowledge?

RPG mechanics does not an RPG make, so I think it is you who are confused. RPG mechanics are just mechanics that were innovated in the RPG genre. They are not what make the genre. By that logic Call of Duty games would be RPGs because they too include those so called “RPG elements” (eg. traits).

also rpg is a vague term, its used in many different sub-genres so to try and define what rpg actually means is pointless.

By that logic it is also pointless to argue by using the word RPG. If it means nothing substantial or not something that can be agreed upon, it follows that arguments relying on “it’s an RPG” are also void, which makes most of your original feedback void.

i’m sorry i really hate these types of arguments.

“What is this game trying to be? I want to know so I can label it!”

Why is it so important to have it ‘fit’ into a category? if it’s an RPG, it MUST HAVE X elements. if it’s action, it must have X elements. what???

it’s a game. you kill rats with pointy things, they get sliced diced burnt and squashed. You either like it, or not.

Even if the devs called it a casual fun card game simulation that’s family friendly, I’m still going to buy and play the crap out of it.

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It’s hard to give any constructive form of reply to the op when their model game is Borderlands which is a fine game but completely different in terms of the gameplay experience it’s trying to achieve.

Stop trying to label it. It is what it is, and I like what it is.

Ever heard of an ARPG?
It’s an action game and an RPG.

wow, so many people complain about the rpg side, i want to try and highlight the strengths of other similar arpg games that could improve it…

and somehow that means im trying to change it into something its not!?!?!?!

THE DEVS CHANGED IT WHEN THEY ADDED LEVELS, TALENTS, BOSSES, ABILITYS, LOOT BOXES ETC!!!

the things i am talking about are in line with what the devs want, im just suggesting real character building mechanics from things like borderlands.

clearly my mistake was in thinking the official forums would have reasonable people wanting to discuss it. but of course not.

typical internet keyboard warriors defending their perfect game.

did none of you realise this is a feedback forum?

dude, i have looked at other posts you have made and it seems you are just going around trying to find faults in peoples arguments to make yourself feel smart lol, pathetic.

it says rpg on the store page, not my fault you cant see it, and the bit about rpg mechanics makes it clear you have NO understanding of game design that it would be pointless to reply lol

That modern kids who thinks diablo or borderlands are RPG…
Sad times

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Pointing out the faults in other people’s arguments is argumentation 101. Whether it makes me feel good or bad is irrelevant; It’s how countering someone’s argument should be done, instead of say resorting to logical fallacies like you do here.

it says rpg on the store page

Ctrl+f on store page with string “rpg” or “role” -> zero results. I’m interested in which context you see it mentioned. Can you cite the context?

It is no marketed as an Rpg and it should not be. It is not competing with hubbased dungeoncrawlers that have exactly what OP is asking for.
V1 had even less progression systems and was a great success and the core of the gameplay should be kept.
Every bit of preogression system takes away from skillbased gameplay and automates gameplay.
While i like (mmo)rpgs a lot myself i understand that this is simply something else and should remain its own thing.

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