Not sure if you’re yanking my chain but, Trigger Warning:
I’m seeing an awful lot of fresh and returning lev 30s in Aurics using whatever low level random un-upgraded items, usually blue weapons with random T1 blessings. This contributes to ammo wastage and unnecessary friction IMO, as well as contributing to the wipes where they don’t get crafting materials.
People would leave matches before this update when they saw shields, but they won’t see these items 99% of the time as they are hidden.
I see. That’s kind of what I thought you meant, I just wasn’t aware you can view team mates gear in that detail. Is that a mod allowing that?
modded mod.
Not targeted at you specifically, but every time I hear something like this it just comes across as “You’re not doing it the way I like”.
This isn’t meant to be V2 in space. We’ve got a V2, we don’t need another one.
This is a much more common problem post-patch. It was honestly fairly rare before the patch brought in the new and returning players. I’ve also found that the lower down you go in the difficulties, the more common it is.
I thought this as well, but I’ve been leveling with a friend who’s playing for the first time and he’s complaining about the lack of ammo as low as t3/t4, and this is with both us communicating to share it and me playing zealot with a babysitter build. Skill is definitely an element here, but those ranks are meant for people who are still building up their skills.
Horrible take honestly. The shotgun is a “no time to aim, pointing in the general direction of an enemy” in the heat of the moment gun and a tool for quick deletion of stronger/medium armored foes like gunner packs.
It was perfect for that role during release. Especially with the pinpoint slug, allowing people with aim to snipe the occasional special.
Fatshark also didn’t advertise the game as us being bulletpissing action heroes but literal rejects that have to survive against tides of enemies.
It’s absolutely logical to go for melee once the bullets run out.
And if you really want to use FS advertising as a viable argument you should chose a company that manages to deliver even a modicum of features it promises.
My argument stands. Ammo is fine as it is now. Give people more and we’ll be back to ranged only Vets spamming their guns and dieing to a lone poxwalker because they can’t melee.
If anything the ‘scarcity’ has provided an uptick in vets that can actually melee. Which should be something you would approve given that this is closer to hybrid than gun only.
How was that a horrible take? They’re just saying that having like, max, 50 shotgun rounds is NOT enough for a reliable stockpile of ammunition during many encounters when in comparison Lasguns all get HUNDREDS of shots.
if you mean that lasguns have too much ammos and other too few ammos and that, considering both, ammos pools are balanced… then you’re right.
If you wanted to say that shotguns have enough ammos… no. I would agree for revolver, cause they tend to be really efficient actually, but not shotgun. I doubt infantry autogun is also fine.
Problem is that weapons that have plenty of ammos can benefit of talents that allow them to use less ammo, while, at same time, there are weapons that have an ammos reserve low and no talent (excepted “always prepared”) to get more ammos or use less.
A veteran should use a ranged weapon. Even with the melee template, the veteran cannot compete with a zealot, an ogryn and even a psyker in a melee fight.
There are yet templates really good with veterans. I just feel that this change limits what I can pick as a veteran.
And still… I don’t understand why Boltgun has yet more ammos in reserve than the shotguns???
Well, sure, but that’s why we’re having a discussion. This game is not V2 in space, but it is supposed to be a hybrid game and previously it was not. You just shoot everything and people actually get by without knowing how to use melee weapons. This should not be possible in a hybrid game. But sure, that’s what I like.
Sure, but the point still stands that this is just bad gamelplay and it’s difficult to patch against that. I always try to look at ammo of my team mates and especially make sure that the veterans are topped up, but I absolutely fail sometimes. What also happens some times is that we are two on a chest, one opens, one grabs what’s inside (both had just intended to open the chest).
Absolutely, but they are not meant to be for people who don’t want to melee. Running out of ammo is working as intended it seems like. You should not be able to just use your gun without running dry if you just keep shooting everything.
As an Ogryn main I think all of my guns are fine. People say the ripper should have double ammo. I don’t agree. It’s my can opener to get down armoured goons quickly. The grenade gauntlet has very poor ammo, but it synergies very well with vet and ammo regen, otherwise I just have to start bashing heads if I run out. I like bashing heads.
I disagree. Even before the patch it was almost unheard of to have a run where you’re not frequently forced into melee as a ranged-focused player. If you didn’t know how to melee, you still died.
The difference is that now you can’t play ranged until you’re forced into melee, you’re forced to play melee and only use your ranged on special occasions. Again, unless you’re using one of the privileged classes/builds.
I wasn’t trying to refute any point. I was agreeing with them. I don’t know what the answer to that is, other than maybe have ammo pickups spread ammo with the team or somehow penalise people for picking up more than they can carry.
It’s less that they don’t like melee and more that they’re playing vet, which is advertised as the ranged class. They picked vet because they thought they’d be able to spend most of their time shooting. They’re disappointed that the gun guy isn’t able to gun as much as they thought they could.
This is pretty much my experience on any build not running a las weapon. Very well said.
No, it’s a W take. Just open your mind to the possibility.
There is three shotgun variants. 1 of 3 covers the niche you talk about. That is the old Lawbringer shotgun.
There is two more variants. One has a high precision shot for distanced enemies, making it more akin to a railgun.
The third option has a wide shot type and is clearly meant for Horde clear. And this is the shotty the guy was using, who according to you ran dry shooting Hordes. And you laugh about that, but he clearly used the weapon as it was intended. Wide shot type for wide cluster of enemies (Hordes).
First off, Fatshark has delivered on most of it’s promises, rocky launch, that one weapon crafting thing and solo play aside.
And then I don’t get this sentiment. Why should the ranged weapons veteran be forced into melee via ammo pressure? We have a full melee character, we can also have a full ranged character.
The vet can be played as a hybrid specialist. That’s what the right tree in combination with middle is for. There are many skills with “quickswap” requirements.
People who go down the left side want to be shooty bois. And that is also clearly the aim of it. You get multiple bonusses that grant you extra damage and toughness regen, if you stand far away from enemies.
That’s totally in the scope of a hybrid game. You have both options. You can combine them or specialize.
I don’t really see where the argument of “they didn’t know how to melee” comes from. It’s a bit of a silly assumption, you have to admit that.
The inversion of this argument would be to claim “Zealots are noobs who get by without knowing how to shoot a gun, because they can melee without interruption”.
Zealots play their class to it’s strength. That is close quarter combat.
Veterans play their class to it’s strength. That is ranged combat.
And the new talent trees encourage you to specialize them differently or go deeper into their niche. Whichever you desire. You can have an all melee Veteran. You can have a shooty boi Zealot. But that’s the player’s choice in what talent line they go down. It’s not our call to dictate that, just how I can’t dictate you @jesper must now play more ranged, because I don’t like everyone going on a stabbing spree.
Again, says who?
Who says I can’t go all guns blazing? There is a full talent tree specialization centered around this, for the Veteran as well as the Ogryn.
You nailed everything that was swirling around my head, too.
One thing in regards to the casual player issue: It doesn’t need any sort of adressing.
It’s honestly another non-issue and was sort of brought up because @gpkgpk went a bit on a tangent (and he admitted as much). @gpkgpk strikes me as a somewhat irritable fellow when it comes to this. 
Every game has casual players with casual gear and crappy loadouts. This “issue” sorts itself over time:
A) Some of the noob players git gud and git geared.
B) Some of the casual players realize the T5 Auric kitchen sink is too much for them to handle, so they go back to the Heresy playground.
C) Playing with your friends in a team circumvents this.
Pre Patch? yes it was the strongest, now ? no
before guranteed to give 1round, even if the 1 round is 1.2%-1.7% or whatever , you constantly give ammo, ogryns with Grenade launcher (rumbler) loved you, same for zealot bolters.
Going to make a little math lesson here:
80 Ammo Bolter Ammo Pattern: 11110
you will get 1 bullet per first 4 specials, and then get no Ammo on the 5th.
1% is 0.8 Ammo
so it does deduct the 0.2 from each of the first 4 specials, so you are strictly getting 1% ammo.
115 Ammo Bolter Ammo Pattern: 22222 (Constant 2 rounds per kill)
Any Special you kill, you always get two rounds.
1% is 1.15 Ammo
and we are getting 2 Ammo per kill ,which is 1.7%.
which so we are now getting nearly 60% less ammo than before.
so the ability was nerfed by 60% as for bolter, i can confirm this only because i got videos of old bolter,i dont have videos of old lasgun.
I feel like you’ve completely misunderstood me because absolutely nothing you just said was a rebuttal to what I said or even terribly relevant.
I meant best aura in the current state of the game compared to every other aura available, across Vet and the other classes. The amount of ammo generated (for the whole team no less) over a whole run is leagues more impactful than any other aura currently accessible to Vet or anybody else.
While we’re doing math care to calculate how much ammo a team gets over an STG run because there was a Vet with this aura present?
thanks for clarification,
it could be best aura, but everyone going psyker now, pskyers dont want our blessed ammo 
could be a good aura, but pskyers gain nothing from this aura, maybe it should reduce heat ?
i would say psykers current auras are the best (10% extra damage to elites/specials) or (10% cooldown)
Yeah it definitely drops off if you get a triple Psyker party, especially since you get all the juicy ammo drops to yourself. Assuming a roughly balanced party comp though I think it’s pretty hard for any other aura to come close to its value. Honestly it’s already gonna be a hard sell for them to rework Vet’s other two auras into something that competes with survivalist (they are gonna have to be STRONG).
I could swallow the ammo reduction if power hadn’t also been hamfistedly fractured. @Mayson, I think you said to me the other day [or maybe I said it to you, idk, I’m tired] that this looks like a good framework, but Veteran simply wasn’t ready for primetime, which is why so much has a kinda placeholder-y feeling to it. I agree with that, but I wish they’d just left the old system in place until the new was ready.
Add to that the other crap like the powersword getting another fücking-goddamned-by-the-jesus nerf, (I THINK) reduced movement speed, the general skilltree placement looking for all the world like it was drawn by a schizophrenic with prodigious levels of ADHD, and just the comparative lack of overall change to the class as anything beyond a more hamstrung version of pre-patch 13 veteran… the end result is that veteran just feels kinda wimpy now.
Like trying to throw a punch, only to then have your bones disappear halfway through the swing.
But what gets to me the most is that in effect, they just took shît away and didn’t really give anything in return. Certainly not anything meaningful in its current iteration, and CERTAINLY-certainly not proportionate to everything that was taken away. Not gonna lie, that tests my patience more than a little bit.
in a different thread or was it here a long time ago? theya ll kind of blur into one. we seemed to come to the conclusion that it was HI int STG specifically that was a problem.
its certainly not an issue damantion and down
I kinda got the feeling with other ranged specializations getting their own ammo regen that swapping survivalist into a “for the player only” node would be a good idea.
Huh? The only thing I can think of that would count is lucky bullet and I hope you’re not comparing that absolute meme to survivalist.
I did, and that’s the only other ranged specialization reliant on ammo. I’m not saying it’s a good trait but it is there.