30 hours is already too much time investment into a game to reach maximum level for casuals? Man, seems weird that MMORPGs and ARPGs even have a playerbase at all.
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Per character. New characters will be released as DLC.
Yeah, when a new class comes out will I have to make a new character and go back and grind it all over again? And unlock weapons again? I hope notâŚ
I think they could cut the level grind roughly in half and itâd be fine. The game really opens up once you have all your talents and get to mess around with different weapons and builds.
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Laughs in fat shark
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People like you who miss the point so completely are one of the reasons why we have MTX in games
Fully expecting hordes of âLevel 1 Veteran Gruntâ or whatever flooding difficulty 2 when they start dropping new classes.
Preposterous game design.
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This is a really interesting discusion, with a lot of different points of views.
I still think the leveling process is at the right pace. And dont understand why not enjoy the ride.
And isn´t in the end playing games always a waste of time if you do so?
Myself i enjoyed every minute of the leveling and playing.
Maybe because i dont see this as a competition, for me it is simply to relax and forget
all about RL.
I can enjoy as level 30 charakter the lowest difficulty because i have fun and all the gore in the game.
Without this leveling and items it would just be like L4D in space (wich i still love and play).
Simple gameplay and to this date still one of the best gore systems i have seen in games.
It´s almost a perfect game (for me at least).
It would be fine for me if they have chosen this way, but they don´t.
A few weapons, ammo for all and dont search all over the place for random hidden items.
And yes i know they have also pickups and a few location where they can spawn.
Just pure and simple gameplay. But i guess this would not be enough today for most players.
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No one said that.
Iâve had 8, and have that on 3 so 24% total⌠Thatâs almost 1 free mission every 4th mission so quite different 
now if they were to add in another account bound bonus xp after your first max character of⌠idk 25% or 50% or something maybe, double even possibly, then it would keep the learning process for the game while going for 30 and then once youâve done that you only need to focus on your own class and such since all game mechanics are known, and thus you wonât need as much time to learn the new things etc etc
But yes rn there is an issue with people Qing for too high diff that theyâre not even remotely ready for
Mate this is no offense, but your whole point is: i had fun so should you.
But what about these points? Canât you see them as a problem in the future?
Just gonna sum up the following to posts as weeklies and getting (good) weapons slowly will motivate players to play one character after another, therefore, you will (in extreme cases) jump from t5 to max t2 on low levels.
I found this kind of ironic, because this basically what the whole thing is about. Having the pure gameplay unlocked in a reasonable time. I wouldnât consider it pure gameplay running around at lvl8 with 1 feat unlocked and one of my four axes i can use.
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Iâll have a look! 
thanks for the sharing, I personally too wanna max out leveling asap but idm grinding it the fk out either through mindlessly just running maps or similarly
Iâm indifferent to the speed of leveling. What I find bizarre is the lack of shared storage for money, weapons (especially considering this is the first *tide game with weapons multiple characters can use), curios, and upgrade components.
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No worries, i think part of an discusion is to have differnt views and opinions at things.
So you think i want people to have fun the way i do?
That is not what i meant.
In fact the game is very clear about to tell you in what you buy into.
It tells you what you get up in front with a purchase. So leveling and how you get other/better items.
There was a closed and now also the preorder beta to test this.
Other games do this a similar way, just as an example ⌠Back 4 Blood. I was really exited for this and can´t wait till it released.
But as i have seen what it would be like to play i simply decidet not to but it.
I did not even bother to test it free on MS Gamepass.
So my point is: Why buy a game in the first place if you know you dont like leveling for example.
Why don´t just play another game?
I am really curios, because this is a core part of the experience of the game.
This really is only my opinon, but i want to play such a game for a very long time, even for years to come. So i don´t need to rush trough all content in a few days if i don´t want to.
So having a few characters to start again makes me (and seems like only me) happy.
40 bucks for this ammount of a timesink ⌠wich AAA game gives you this?
But as i said, that´s just me and i don´t want anybody to think as i do. But seems like the whole game is based around this.
You are also right, there are a few points said here i can agree with.
And i would enjoy the game even more without leveling and searching items in random places and all this progress, wich only interupts my gameplay.
But the game is based on this. And this what i have decidet to pay for.
I hope i don´t generate to much anger with my opinion
Alright mate, i can understand your pov better. I can only share you my experience with the vermintide series. I had a lot more fun, after i finished leveling. Not that it was a pain before, but after i had the first 1-2 characters maxed and had the freedom to play with them and their builds as i liked, i had this ânow i can finally start the gameâ - moment. And after that, i needed to max out the remaining characters, always in my mind that it would be a lot more fun playing with all their talents. And i think, that a lot of other vt veterans come from a similar point of view.
And i donât advertise to make the talents (or feats in dt) instantly accesible, after we maxed out for example two characters, usually you have a nice basic understanding of how the game works. However, it forces you to put down all the time again, while playing with very limited âtoolsâ (weapons and talents) for multiple hours at a point, where you are totally comfortable with more complex mechanics. And in my opinion, there should be an exp-boost, which is dependant on the total amount of levels over all characters, to speed up the leveling, when you are already an experienced player.
You donât generate any anger, no worries mate
edited some typos
Maybe, just remember that if you feel like itâs a grind, itâs time to take a break.
Who are you talking to? First itâs not a grind because itâs not a Korean MMO, and now it doesnât matter if itâs a grind because people just arenât taking enough breaks? Fatshark has staff they pay to do this kind of stuff, you know
A critical part of the issue is that this game was built from the ground up and balanced for level 30 players, with all their talents unlocked. Many of the games playstyles are locked behind level (trust level) walls. I mentioned it in some other replies. The first 30 levels are essentially the tutorial, the game doesnt hit its stride until then, and theres no need for the tutorial to take so long. With the games current pacing many casual players will struggle to ever know what their level 30 talent does.
As I also mentioned in other replies, multi-classing is a important part of the Tide games, it keeps the game fresh but allows you to learn more classes, and in turn, helps you be a better team mate now that you know what those players strengths/weaknesses are, and how you can best work alongside them.
At 60 hours of playtime for two classes, very few people are ever going to actually get to play and learn two characters. Casuals will be greatly discouraged to play multiple classes.
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I never said that. I didnt even mentioned how itemization is being handled. I said that the rate of progression, and specifically the leveling experience, is too slow and should be improved.
If you want hard numbers I would guess that it should take on the order of 15 hours for someone to reach max level, playing at a common difficulty (Malice 3, no events, no special conditions). So a few hours faster if they were good enough to play horde mode, and always get the grims/scriptures.
On the note of difficulty⌠the XP rewards for 2 need increased to more accurately bridge the gap between 2 and 3. A difficulty 2 run only rewards 100xp more than a difficulty 1 run. A difficulty 3 runs awards somewhere on the order of 1000xp more than a difficulty 2.
The most fun I have in a 'Tide game is when I have my âperfectâ weapons and Iâm pushing both myself and my build just under my limit. Where I have to pay attention but Iâm not stressing every moment.
The start of VT2 was a pain for an experienced player who knew how the game was after the initial hump and have actively pushed other players away from the game because it was boring to them. They didnât have to pay attention, it was a w key/m1 simulator and that bored them to bits.
If they stick with it, then the difficulty jumps pushed in their backend because it wants them to play significantly smarter and they have developed some bad habits in the lower difficulties that not only frustrate them but also frustrates their team. How often have we seen players running in front, never paying attention to the rest of the team? Less in DT but still a troubling amount imo. Lower difficulties donât punish these people, while higher difficulties do and if you have people playing difficuties at their skillset (not their knowledge base) being one man down sucks.
Further beyond that, even when I got all reds, on all my level 35 characters, I still played and still loved it. I would just increase the difficulty or challenge myself trying to teach/carry people through legend that should be there : )
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