Vermintide 1 did not have a level grind and it was not worse for it.
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The problem that the 'Tide games always had is not only do we have ignorant new players (being ignorant isnāt bad when youāre new, just means you donāt know things) going up too high, we also have people who have ālearnedā the game at lower difficulties developing habits and playstyles that are frankly detrimental to higher difficulties. As it stands right now, people are only going to learn difficulty 4-5 habits and playstyles by losing rank 4-5 matches a lot .
Iāll admit during VT1 I was one of those who learned bad habits in the lower difficulties. It took me a long time to unlearn most of them, and Iām pretty sure I still have some knocking about. Gatekeeping higher difficulties behind time isnāt the answer I donāt think, because theyāre still going to be rubbish except theyāre going to be rubbish with poor play habits instead of out of ignorance.
Fair take tbh, not sure I full agree but you might be right here, never really played with newers players in the tide series and had friends who had more hours than me when we started but havenāt really noticed alot of bad players in Cata games in vt2 and I do have 1k+ hours in it :'D ofcourse theres the random person thinking theyre gods gift or what not being untouchable but that raaarely happensā¦
But yeah maybe the better solution is to allow them to fail high threat missions alot to learn, even if it kind of ruins quickplay lobbies for me right now
TBH Iād like lower difficulties to help develop the skills that are needed in higher difficulties and to allow failures without killing a run.
I donāt know how thatād work, but Iām not the one being paid to develop it. Iāll leave it for people who are more experienced in development to figure out how to get to that end goal.
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I think that itās extremely disheartening to new players when they complete a hard match and realize that theyāll need to do one or two more just to reach the next level of trust.
As it stands, the practical number of hours required for a player to get their first level 30 is ~40 hours. That is far too much time.
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This, that is the main issue in my view. I see here many pll that are ok with the system referring to running missions with their buddies. Well just try to imagine ppl who prefer to play with randos, donāt have group of friends or by whatever reason they chose to play matchmade only. Experience is rather lackluster. You do not need 20+ hours to learn your clas in this game, you can reach your level in 10 and it would be fine, at least you could quite reasonably get a pool of characters to choose from.
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TBH how we have it now, people donāt even learn the basics by level 30, much less their class or weapons by that time despite the time it takes to get there. We just need a better learning curve in general.
I absolutely want people to get to the parts of the game that I enjoy in a timely manner. I want random teammates that not only know the basics for this game but to get to the point where they can have fun in the most rewarding difficulties ASAP. Just shortening the time to do so though isnāt going to get people to that point.
If anything, itās like VT1 where people were given access to difficulties that they were in no way prepared for, and had no way to prepare for them without throwing games for hours on end on that difficulty.
I am very firmly in the āthe leveling up isnāt the fun part of this gameā camp. I have over 650 hours in VT2, and I have to admit I only really started having fun after I maxed out my character and started playing Legend. I enjoyed finding Champion challenging at first, and then completing my first Legend mission, and then my first Cata mission, and then completing everything on Cata and then everything on every career on Legend. But that was all done in the 500 or so hours after I had already reached max level and had time to actually play the class as it was intended, with all the bells and whistles.
What I find most disheartening about leveling up in Darktide is that the Feats suck and the weapons you buy are random, so there seems to be little to no ACTUAL effect on gameplay when you level up. I have only been able to squeeze out 15 hours, and I got to lvl 15 with my Psyker, but I really havenāt noticed myself playing any different to when I was level 5 when I lucked out and got a Force Staff.
When I looked at Sienna Battle Wizardās talents in VT2, I was super psyched to get the lvl 10 talent tree because it branches gameplay off into horde-clear with DoT or single-target damage. Lvl 15 and 20 trees were utilitarian, but still important, but then 25 once again adds to your chosen playstyle (damage reduction vs. faster ult vs. more melee capability) and lvl 30 drastically changes what your ult does, once again making the class even more versatile.
Good Talents mean I was keen to reach those milestones because I felt I earned the opportunity to be more effective, and I wanted to play more to take advantage of this opportunity.
Here, I wasnāt (and I am still not) excited for any of the Feats. I wonāt go into details on every single feat because this isnāt a Psyker feedback thread, but Iām just saying I have no reason to be excited for level 30 because I donāt feel any of the Feats Iāll pick up will affect my gameplay experience in a meaningful way.
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the progression is carrying over from the beta so im ok with the progression now
This is one of the reasons I think that all enemies should be spawning on lower difficulties. Perhaps not in the same numbers, but even difficulty 1 players should know what a bulwark is and how to handle it imo.
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Another thing Iāve just noticedā¦
Missions are PER character.
If you want the coin, you need to do lenghty missions with the SAME character.
25 missions/tomes take a LOT time (12+hours at the bare minimum).
Got multipel characters? Well missions on EVERY character.
+that just means the plasteel coin system is another crappy time gate mechanic.
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I kinda miss stuff like āAgainst the Grainā from VT 1. They were short, focused missions you could jump in, finish and then do the next. Was good for grinding and a quick roung āin betweenāā¦ Would actually work well for Darktide:
Make the current missions FIXED. And then, you have shorter maps as the stuff that randomly pops upā¦ Tehn again, i might also just want to have a āProperā story again, where we fihgt our way to the heart ot he issue, and where such side stuff would be a nice distraction. Ya know, like in VT 1 and 2, instead of everything feeling like that, just in longerā¦
Your talking about the first 0.01% of this games lifespan.
The devās balanced the entire game around being level 30, they fully intend for you to spend the majority of your playing career at max level. Taking 30 hours to get there was painful, and I am very confident its going to discourage a lot of people.
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I had a great time leveling to 30 and playing the game from new. Learning the systems and enjoying the core combat. Honestly the power disparity between a fresh 30 char and a level 10 char isnāt really that much. The only thing that really changes over 1-30, for a new player anyways, is your skill.
Also i found it incredibly fast to level. One level a mission is insanely good, imo.
Its not one mission a level or it wouldnāt be taking people almost 30 hours of gameplay. The casuals that cant handle Haz 3 are really screwed.
The power disparity from 1-30 is massive if your class is dependent on the feats to function, which the Psyker is, and other classes in the future will be.
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Iāve been doing tier 3 difficulty since level 4 and have never looked back. I did this on a psyker. I got about a level a mission, give or take (maybe a little less at 27+). More importantly however, i learned how to play far better from t3 endless hordes than I did from t1/t2.
I come from shooters in general and so I favoured range gunplay for a while before i began to become more and more comfortable with melee with the help of a friend who had some experience with vermintide 2. I picked up a kantrael XII lasgun at level 4 and from that point on I had a decent gun that could get me done in tier 3, which i upgraded with better versions from the shop over my levels.
nah im mostly leveled up so thats most of my grind gone
Until they drop a new class every 3 months that starts at level 1 with no gear, materials or currency
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We are talking about progression as experience for players in general. That includes or even mainly concerns ppl who did not grind the beta and new players down the road. Fine if you are done, good for you.
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