The new ranged meta - a prediction

This post wasn’t for you. Not really. It was for everybody else. Push attacking into a horde with the greataxe is suicide into cata with the current screwups of the slot system
The DR isn’t reliable and so should be circumvented. Barge is better because it can be relied on 100% of the time.
The pick hits meaty far far earlier in general and in cata specifically into chaos hordes and beast hordes specifically and has no ability on it’s own to deal with shields which hordes spawn with and in great numbers.
How meaty? How early?

As in the push attack follow up. You can and will get stuffed into beast hordes. As for playing the game. With how frequently this is reported we must not even be playing on the same planet, my friend. If only twitch download was faster I could show you, at length, the frequency of this occurrence.

tsk tsk tsk. As I’ve said before, there aren’t many maps I have left in Cata to clear. I’ve used greataxe since I’ve played this game. You can read my old thoughts back when 1.08 hit Slayer in 1.8
All of my sore spots in general did get addressed (if we ignore that they then went above and beyond and made slayer overpowered with the temp on kill talent)

I was kind of only asking to see if you knew of some magical build that could take some of the pain away. There’s various things I haven’t tried including various configurations that involve 1h hammer and the throwing axe and frankly I can’t be bothered to try since I no longer enjoy this game.
But 2H axe and Pick I’m quite intimate with. With various tweaks to both push range, guard shields, and stamina regen tried over the course of what my recent activity says is 103 hours. I am quite intimate indeed.

And as an extra bit of fun, during a stream I got grabbed by two leeches in total. At the time I was about 20/80 that it was my fault leaning on the 80% I screwed up. Watching this footage again, nope.
The sound of beastmen of all types drowns out the sound of a life leech teleport. Sound of a flag bearer putting down his standard also drowns out the sound of a teleport going down. At 300% volume I still can’t hear the darn things. Go figure Maybe I should just copy paste The 4 S's: Sight, Sound, Spawns, and Specials
into a new thread. Half this crap applies again now.
Edit: And again the sound of the flag bearer chants drowns out the rattling of a warpfire thrower. Excellent

Anyhow sorry for wasting yer time.
Oh that’s right. Push attacks.
here you go

  • Team gets split by some gas and I get cut off falling back to what I thought was an alright defensible position.
  • Dispose of an enemy that either got behind me while I was meat grinding or popped up out of thin air
  • Do shove attacks with my great axe because I still was of the mind that it was safe reliable pressure
  • Get hit by an enemy in between shoves (which I guess fool on me for not still spamming dodge mindlessly)
  • Get downed by an enemy that either slipped behind me while grinding or popped up out of thin air

That run was relatively cursed though. Unlimited horde music, silent hordes, the aforementioned silent specials, roller skating Chaos Warriors and a myriad of other nonsense just outside of our control. There was a point that we were going down the stairs. A metric ton of beastmen climbing out of the walls and dropped down on us, the horde* music then starts, the boss music then spawns, and then we get 3 disablers.
That’s just death.

There’s two other spots in that relatively short session where I get stuffed pushing a horde with my back to the wall from an enemy in the direct immediate area in which I pushed
30%+ by the way.

Here’s another one.

But in this is the case, I’m assuming of just missing the push.

Enemies are coming my way. I realize charges are no longer tenable. I step forward walking closer in with my guard up with the intent to push, I push out at them, and I’m hit by the enemies queueing their running attacks. Again. Probably just missed so no sleep loss. There’s two others I’m thinking about. But frankly I’m done going through this. Err. And by this I mean my recorded game.


Yes I know, you asked for a build, I provided it.

You view yourself as an expert slayer player, and had a response to anything I said locked and loaded to proclaim anything I said was wrong.

Got it.

That video you posted. . . Your push missed and your movement/dodge was hindered by the wall of the hallway. Of course you are going to get hit! It wasnt even a running attack, the dude was in slot, you miss your push and your dodge whiffs too. Also, you are off host, how was your ping? Things like that happen as a function of latency all the time, you need to account for it.

Where you got hit by a running attack, you were moving backwards and just got hit by a running attack. I mean, thats why we dont fight in hallways and dodge laterally in places where we have room to do it, right? After I saw that happen about 1000 times I started to work to not take fights in those positions.

Regardless, thats precisely what I was talking about when I said bad positioning and movement, and those hallways and channels are mentioned above in this thread, they are melee deathtraps due to the movement constraints.

But I’m done responding to you because you have a plan and will execute it regardless of the information I provide.

Although I did just go back and read your audio complaints, if you can see my previous posts, I just made one explaining an audio fix that I just love that helps with sound resolution. I hope that works for you and anyone else that moght try it, its great for me.

I wasn’t predisposed to disagree with you, you goofy goober. Just that this thing in particular I’ve bashed with for 40 hours. Knowing things new or old from an outside perspective done in methods that are new moving outside of my comfort zone. These things lead to improvement I think.
Also… hmmm

If you look again you can see me still moving forward but not actually going anywhere after the second push attack. I moved backwards for the first one to avoid hits that may happen in between push and attack by enemies that may be slated to run. That’s an invisible no pass meatwall. The one on the right outside of 30% and out of range. Which you know what, fair enough.

Also there wasn’t a dodge.
I completely trusted my push.
A bit too much commitment in a tool and I paid for it by making the assumption that even point blank I’m not necessarily safe from missing a push and eating failure.

The second hit I took in the second clip was me attempting to force a repeat of the situation. So it was a fail condition manufactured.

The lesson I learned from then and executed for the rest of that (relatively short) session that I’ve stated before and will state again was that push attacks aren’t the ballistic spacemaker they are in L4D2 and that no matter how confident you are, you should dodge.

As for hindered. We were running that map specifically and I run through that location constantly as my defensive position. This is the only instance I ever die or even get hit in that hallway. And it’s due to me not watching my ass and not having my allies with me (due to the other half of my 2/2 being dead) while also trusting a tool too devoutely.

But I’m getting off track, getting off point and wasting time. Still I feel inclined for a final statement

If I was an expert Slayer I would enjoy the changes as I would already have adapted to them. I wouldn’t be getting hit, I’d be running these maps more successfully. So on and so forth.

Every single failure I’ll ever eat I’ll use as room for process improvement. Be it in rougelikes, fighting games, quake, or KF2. As I’ve mentioned at length before and beyond. Skilled growth requires constructive inflection.

Just because I don’t find the game particularly as enjoyable as before doesn’t mean the game is bad or that I myself am above it in ability. So don’t think this disagreement is me refusing to change, my friend. Stellar comments on sound. When I eventually come back to this game down the line I’ll be sure to give em a whirl.


The cleave from greataxe is realy bad and the pushes never work how you want, you basicaly cannot stand your ground unless you have a 2h hammer or dual hammers. I suggest you to switch to 2h hammer and just endlessly spam heavy attack since FS wants you to play this way, every other weapon (beside hammer) get stuck after hitting one marauder…

I tried 1h hammer push attack spam and it was meeh because ghost swings and running attacks from ennemies (and not even that great at cleaving), on the paper it s impossible to take a single hit from slaverat horde (if you dodge+push and move with 25% mouvment speed, push attack are realy safe) but in practise you re just force to hold block because of bugs just in case

I m not replying the most constructive feedback nor answering your observation but when i ve seen these clips it just reminded me how bad it is, how the hell did FS came to such cleave values without “upping” push range and/or strengh (at least). Can you belive that someone made WHC & Zealot and that same person though that slayer is totaly ok. But we got a 50% DR talent that is totaly not clunky to use, right ???


Oh. I pair with dual hammers.
I swapped after 2? 3? gametime amount of days.
I used to go with pickaxe and then 2H hammer because of the 15% talent. But crits increase damage dealt for awhile so I settled for that.

I’m not sure where numbers lie. Before the reason #1 I took greataxe, well. No I guess reason #2 that I took greataxe is because thematically a Slayer should have a greataxe in my eyes. I make a special exception for that dwarf adonis in Dragon’s Crown and his duel hammers. Where was I?
Oh yeah the #2 reason I took greataxe was because I it allowed you to fight plague monks due to it’s heavy stagger. Sure as hell doesn’t feel that way now. Plague monks are scary as hell as a Slayer now. When I see those assholes raining down my heart leaps into my throat.
I’d take throwing axes, but because of the GA poor cleave that means my horde capabilities would be severely diminished unless I stacked shields and stamina recovery. (which feels awful in case you ever want to try that but it does work somewhat)

Mathematically 7% less power is overall less damage than either of the other stagger talents as 2 stacks of stagger but I’m curious on just how much it impacts cleave and stagger to those green jerks.

Still cleave is a bit severely reduced and there is a bit of disparity when comparisons are made with zealot. This I’ll have to admit is true. I’m overall fine with one of our two melee weapons not being an all rounder but Great Axe in particular is missing something and for the life of me I have no clue what the hell that is.
The crits still sound meaty and great.
It still can kill a chaos warrior (eventually).
It’s has (admittedly could be better) boss damage
But I don’t know.


Sure, I’m not saying otherwise, but it’s not balanced at all.

No matter how broken patch we ever had, there were always options that did pretty good.

Well, the busted temp HP is not manageable on some classes with some weapons. Which basically kills them, because nobody is going to run without temp HP.

Broken pushing is huge issue also, because if you’re not playing on super cut down graphics setting as lot of the top guys do (to get better visibility), than you don’t see (thru all that blood flying) that some mob glitched and did not get pushed.

As for running attacks, those are so dumb, this really needs to get fixed fast, these self correcting missiles that can in last fractions of seconds somehow turn (without proper animation - not even fu-king aiming at you) and still hit you.

And than combined with hyperdensity… I dropped down to the wine cellar in Empire map, got beastmen horde, pushed them, sided dodged…got isnta destroyed by few running attacks thru the guys I just pushed. This is the same bullsh-t as spearmen attacking thru bodies of other enemies, impossible to predict.

And the ice-skating can sometimes get completely ridiculous, even boses are ice-skating sometimes.

Also I forgot how bosses now can switch and do very very close to insta hits, for example Rat Ogre, can switch target so fast and hit it, that it’s impossible to avoid it. Saw this already few times and happened to me once.

Exactly :wink: I did experiment with builds, but it changes nothing on the fact that this is so screwed up…

And I don’t like seeing people suggesting “get more new-patch-meta build” or “it’s mostly fine and you can play around it.”

No, it sucks, it should not go live like this at all.

What kind of feedback can anyone expect from this mess anyway. I can’t even imagine how new players feel about this.



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My guess would be “This is too hard” but maybe they will just go more for tanks/cc and solve the issue that way.

Wait here were cleave nerfs??

:rofl: FS could replace them with cruise missiles next April 1st.

Aye, VT2 Steam reviews are doing badly overall atm and that’s a lot veterans, I imagine newer players’ll drop it and that’s that if they encounter too many bugs. Launch had a lot of bugs too but people liked launch combat and stayed around, a lot of people don’t like current combat (based on various reasons: bugs, nerfs, design etc.).

Yeah, in the patch 2.0 notes. Lemme find them:

Smiter is an attack profile here (not the talent) which has always been in game and applies to certain weapon attacks. I think it’s mainly certain heavies (exec, glaive) though, but idk all of what counts.

So it looks like I’m mistaken, axes got reduced cleave (from 2 to 1 target) while D&D and S&D got a cleave buff on lights. (Grudgeraker/Blunderbuss also got a cleave reduction. Apparently 1h maces also got cleave buffs).

:open_mouth: Found the Glaive one while I was at it:

Now we know why it feels terribad/keeps stopping short in hordes post-WoM @SmokerT69 and @Bankrotas.

That’d explain why it’s feeling worse to me as lately I’ve been testing out exactly those weapons and you can feel the cleave nerfs they got (1h axe is still good though at its role, however on glaive the light attack nerf makes it feel like rubbish).

Edit: @WhereIsBaoDur, as @Bankrotas reminded me, I forgot: some enemies got a mass increase, which reduces your ability to cleave them. Marauders for example went from 6 to 7.5 mass.

For reference glaive has a cleave (damaging) value of 7.78/cleave (stagger) of 7.07 (I believe exec has similar values unless they’ve been tweaked too). Taking into account linesman, this means even on linesman attacks (cleave modifier, reduces mass by 40% in the case of marauders) you can cleave only two marauders (7x0.6 = 4.2) per swing instead of three (6x0.6 = 3.6) per swing. It also makes you weaker vs mixed packs of marauders/fanatics or fanatics alone.

So I’m at least not imagining cleave being worse, it effectively is.


It’s not only that cleave nerfed, the damn animation literally stuttering at 3rd enemy drains me.

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Well, sh*t.

(thank you very much ofc)

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Glaive lost linesman on first 2 light attacks. So at best it can stagger 1 marauder.

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I think as long as you don’t exceed the maximum (like with 7.50/7.78) it should still just barely hit 2. Only 1 will get CCed though (7.50/7.07).

And yeah I saw. imo glaive should really get linesman back on its first two lights, it feels plain inconsistent in its combat style otherwise.

At first thought it’d be a meta weapon come WoM, but it seems FS have anyway been balancing the rest (1h axe was bad in earlier betas but good now), and as glaive is now it’s just ass.

I haven’t tried the 1h axe in a while, isn’t it still a single target weapon?

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Yeah but in the previous betas it had problems due to lacking stagger and many enemies being even more resistant to stagger than they are now, FS since buffed 1h axes specifically so that they’re still good at single target damage now.

Glaive meanwhile has been prison shanked. You might as well take a 1h axe if you want low cleave high AP dps. It needs linesman back on all attack.

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Just bring THP back to what it was.


Aye, the glaive is a a waste of time now. I was wondering why it felt so bad, didn’t take the time to look into it. I actually stopped using it altogether by day 4. The dual daggers just felt so much better, even for horde clear… not to mention, the daggers out damage the glaive as well.

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I just hope they won’t think to “fix” this by nerfing DD again


Please stop comparing glaive to DD and saying how underpowered glaive is because it will only result in DD nerfed to oblivion. That has always been the way how FS balance this game and you people should know this by now.