Well versatility is the ability to adapt and I wasn’t thinking in terms of combat prowess, I was thinking of the different functions it can do, like how Batman’s utility belt has so many functions that it’s practically an enigma. It’s Batman who is the versatile one tbh.
Which as I was saying, having a range weapon with utility is a new concept to V2, we don’t really have many range weapons that are capable of performing totally different functions, and effectively too, and it’s something I want to see more of.
I compare it to the handgun as it shares the same damage, but the MW pistol has significantly greater damage fall off than the handgun. That’s why it’s able to delete 6 SV in one burst, because it’s damage is equal to the handgun, the crossbow you need to hit breakpoints to bodyshot SV, the handgun does not, which is why I compare the MW pistol to the handgun, it shares the same damage.
Strongly disagree with this, I like the careers as they are, GK has no range whatsoever so he should be strong, (lore wise Grail Knights are a force of nature) he’s in a good place. Shade has been coined as the glass cannon, if your nerf her ult you’d take her cannon away and she’d just be glass. BH is also fine, you’d have to land headshots and potions consistently to do insane boss damage, otherwise it’s just a powerful ult that helps you kill a monster.
going slightly off topic but I’m not thinking nerfs here that would make the classes weak or useless, just a little less capable of brute forcing wins through pure dps.
Blessed Blade could most certainly use a longer cooldown, it’s up a bit too often imo. Also some tweaks to make the talent options a bit more in balance with each other. Shade will by no means be too weak if they nerf cloak of mist, she was fine before it and she’ll be fine after it, vanish has also got to go; it’s a dumb talent. BH is another case where his ult choices need to be made more balanced with each other and that will require nerfing double-shotted; it’s simply too good currently for any other choice on that row to compete unless you make them obscenely powerful.
See I disagree. BH is a squishy DPS class, his ult has no other real functions aside from the DPS on a monster, and the ability to delete a CW, other than that it has no real uses, it has no CC, you can’t escape with it, you can’t revive safely with it, it really has nothing to offer except for the high damage, it’s a one trick pony. GK has the except same type of ult, only difference is he has to be close to use it, he again has no range making him extremely vulnerable to specials, and he can be harassed by blightstormers and liches, he’s extremely dependent on his team to deal with specials, he also fills a tank roll, The shade is the squishiest one of them all, her ult is only really beneficial with monsters and elite killing power too, but what makes it unique is the clutch potential.
I don’t want to see these talents or careers nerfed just because 5 or so people on the forums think it ought to be, that’s a horrible idea which completely ignores the thousands of players who enjoy the careers where they are but don’t visit the forums.
I didn’t realize that you had a hand on the pulse of the community m8
honestly while I do understand what you’re getting at you really don’t know any better than the rest of us do where the majority of public opinion lays. I’ve seen my fair share of reddit posts, discord discussion and even just pubs in game talking about how overpowered shade in particular is. Unless someone wants to go and run a series of well structured polls across the various branches of the community all we’ve got here is anecdotes, estimates and opinions.
All I’m saying is I don’t think 4 to 10 people should be calling the shots on balancing changes, yes you will be getting the game closer to what you want, but that doesn’t mean that’s what the community wants.
This is true and a fair point, but I do have one thing to go on, your thread has had close to 2k views but your original topic only has 10 likes, if your idea was a popular one, then I think it’s safe to say you’d see more than just 10 likes after 2k visits.
also the comments disagreeing with me have fewer likes anyway but that’s certainly no metric for invalidating those.
All I can say is that, in my opinion, a lot of these classes AND the topic of this thread could use rebalancing so there’s a little more build diversity and they aren’t steamrolling content through overpowering damage output. Because right now there’s a ton of things in the game that make elites and monsters a total joke and the solutions to that issue are either making the game harder, nerfing prime offenders down a bit OR a measure of both.
Also I think it’d be cool to see some meta stuff toned down and non-meta stuff brought up a bit so we can get a much more diverse gameplay experience. Like imagine shotgun BH being more than a meme, I’d like that.
Oh and I totally agree if any decision is to be made, Fatshark should gather all the data they need regarding what the community thinks.
Are we seriously going by Likes to determine the popularity of the idea? You can sign me up as someone who agrees that the pistol should be nerfed but couldn’t be bothered to press the button. By the way, a large majority of balance changes are made by 4 to 10 people, that’s the dev team. More games are balanced without listening to the community than with. Heck, you can look at the BBB, which was a community-driven endeavour but once again, spearheaded by 4 members.
Yes and no, the point was more to do with, we have no way of knowing how popular this idea is, as there were 2k views but only 10 likes, and there’s no dislike button either. Whereas the bot rework idea has 200 views and 10 likes, that’s already a better like to view ratio.
Naturally the dev team is small and has the final say in these matters, but my point here was that 4 to 10 members of the community shouldn’t decide balance changes, as their views are not necessarily indication to the community as a whole.
Essentially what I’m saying is we really should have some kind of poll or something, so the devs will have a large sampling of community feedback before making any kind of balance changes.
Let’s just end all discussion because “majority” might not like it. To be honest people need to stop using this as an deflection. I’d personally say majority don’t even give a dam how the balance is as long as its not totally out there and they can keep slaying rats.
According to this, might as well just end all discussion because we’re never going to involve the entire community in balance and gameplay decisions.
Your point is entirely pointless anyways, cause there’s no one here that’s actually deciding balance changes, we’re just presenting our ideas to the developers and it’s up to them to decide whether or not to act on and implement. If dozens of different people say that X is OP or Y is underpowered, developers will see that as a valid stance to have even if it’s not 1000 people saying it, cause only a very small portion of the playerbase actually participates in forums or give feedback, most are casual, and I don’t think most people will even notice that the Masterwork Pistol got nerfed a bit.
There are 2 things the dev team should follow in terms of balance :
The percentage of weapon use at higher levels (since the weapons drops are random and constantly replaced at lower levels; if it was a choice, then you’ll have to consider lower level as well)
The win percentage with each specific weapon.
This can be completed with User Feedback. So they can tackle the issues of what people think to make future weapons more reliable.
After all, even if let’s say “spear” is never taken, even if the win percentage doesn’t seem to change with or without, that can be linked to a lack of something with that specific weapon. Something that only feedback from people can make appear. => It doesn’t mean that everyone have the same voice or that everyone’s view should be considered.
On masterwork pistol, I do think that the left clic is fine as it is, and that all the issues we face comes from the right click part (which means deleting entire elites patrols in mere seconds, or doing more damage on monsters).
So the smart move would be to nerf either damage from the right click part (it’s also kinda logical since the bullet is shot fast, without all the recoil you need from the left clic), or the precision to make it reaaaaallly shitty (but there, it would probably have, as a result, a reducing of the useable range but not solve the issue of deleting patrol).
Overall, you could also nerf the monster damage.
On the BBB part, it’s okay that it was driven by some modders :
Because they were actually there to discuss
Because they were not perfect with everything but they did try to stay objective when it comes to balancing stuff not only with their own views and “modded” experience (Mercenary Damage Reduction, and light stagger apart :p)
Because all the changes weren’t applied (volley crossbow piercing for example), which means devs did also take some decision in the matter.
Yeah I agree with this.
It would be interesting if some weapons have a low pick rate but high win rate, that could mean a weapon is good but not really enjoyed by the player base, which would be something to look into as well.
For the weapon to be so OP, I don’t see it THAT often, considering that it is still new. I mean, yeah, you see the occasional RV and IB running it, but I still see IBs with mostly drakefire weapons still and OE tends to heavily shift towards drakefire and also handgun alot more these days. Soon, the weapon will just be one of many in Bardin’s arsenal.
I have noticed that although there are 1.9k viewers here, incan is not receiving 1.9k likes.
I’m not sure if this is being done intentionally or if these “users” are forgetting to click ‘like’. Either way, I’ve had enough. I have compiled a spreadsheet of users who have “forgotten” to like incans most recent posts. After 2 consecutive strikes your username is automatically highlighted (shown in red) and I am immediately notified. 3 consecutive strikes and you can expect an in-person “consultation”. Think about your actions.
I think this is a pretty big point, most of the community isn’t playing in top difficulties. Nerfing a breakpoint in cata doesn’t necessarily make the weapon any weaker at all in vet. We really don’t need to listen to people at every difficulty when it comes to balance, simply because most just don’t know what they’re talking about and wouldn’t really be impacted by changes much anyway.