Obviously I can’t speak for Mason, but I don’t believe it was pointed at you. It’s just an extremely common occurrence for people who argue in favor of chip damage (and other contentious mechanics) to just make belittling statements about their opponents’ skill or intelligence.
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agreed, chip hp dmg has to go, makes no sense at all.
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If ‘not fun’ isnt a good argument for a game in your opinion, then perhaps you should just not have one
How else could they act if theyre the type of people that want to make things difficult for the sake of difficulty, with complete disregard for the fact that nobody finds any enjoyment in it
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Gospel
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Very good points. Also, removing bleed-through will not stop gunners from melting you in 2-3 bursts on Heresy or Damnation. They’re the other big difficulty hurdle that can also be tweaked.
We already have bleed damage in the form of corruption.
And that’s a stronger type of bleed.
THIS!
The zealot’s “Until Death” (become invulnerable for 5 seconds after what should’ve been a killing blow to you) is now just delaying the inevitable, while in Vermintide (2) the zealot was able to regain temporary health during that window as part of a basic game feature.
A zealot that walks around with 1hp after “Until Death” proc, is a dead man walking and is therefore forced to pick “Unholy Revenant” as a talent, which makes talent choice an illusion.
Adding chip-damage was a micro-managing, heavy-handed decision that defies original gameplay design as proven by the tutorial text. Has Fatshark said anything about this yet that I missed? Chip-damage is a mistake. Period.
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Also:
Fatshark never introduced chip-damage to Vermintide (2) either. Imagine having temporary health, but an enemy hit would damage your actual health as well. Idiocy, and there’s a good reason the game doesn’t work like that.
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So, I’ve been thinking about chip damage, and I actually think it’s good for the game. This isn’t Vermintide, so it’s okay to me for Toughness to work different than Temp HP. As I see it:
It rewards skilled gameplay by promoting dodging and blocking attacks.
It gives more weight to taking a weapon with good defensive capabilities instead of what simply hits the hardest.
It adds to the importance of the players covering each other in close up fights.
It makes Health worth more as a stat on Curios because eventually some big damage is going to get through. (And since Corruption reduces Max HP that also makes Corruption Resist more useful as well.)
It also makes damage reduction more valuable when attainable.
The design direction in Darktide is “you will take damage”. Everything else is built towards making sure the player is taking hits with more regularity than VT2. Dodging and blocking have both been nerfed, flanking is more aggressive, charge distance is consistently long, enemies can move quite quickly in a short timeframe, dropdown spawns seem to intentionally happen on top of players, and the game spawns a lot more stragglers.
In other regards characters are beefier, but we take damage more frequently. Adding in melee chip damage means a low hp player will almost certainly go down, while in VT2 a low hp character could frequently recover.
That toughness and HP are two separate bars would already function as a relative penalty to VT2, you can’t recover to full effective HP, only recover your shield, that is, if your shield was really a shield.
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If there wasn’t chip damage there would be little reason to do anything but stack toughness, toughness recovery and take the weapon that kills the most in the shortest amount of time. The game would be way too easy.
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Toughness currently takes damage differently from health from certain sources. Flamers and bombers for instance seem to just take out toughness immediately but have much less impact on health. The game design already seems to have accounted for that concern.
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This is the point i try to stress the most if chip damage is removed. Game will just be way too easy.
The main problem here is people new to the genre or have a small amount of playtime and have not reached a level where they can see how obvious this is. I can guarantee over time as people get better they will see the balance value that chip damage brings to the game. All i can hope for is that fatshark gives people the time to improve before making any drastic changes.
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Have you guys not noticed the game design currently incentivizes going down on low hp? By making low hp very dangerous to a run if you should go down during a horde, and making “wounds” independent of difficulty, it’s generally better to just “recover” in safer circumstances.
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I’m pro chip damage in general, but melee classes should have more options to mitigate this through talents and/or gear.
People in general have no idea about game design.
ATM if you have low hps, unless you are down to your very last wound available or you are near a medicae station, you need to go down to recover at least the most of your HPs.
Chip damage forces you to do that.
They have introduced it in the weave of Moors.
The white balls that turn your green health into white health
Don’t like this mechanic either, it’s cheap and counter-intuitive.
Fatshark, fix your mistakes, and try harder next time.
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No it doesn’t. The fact that you have low HP does. How you got into that low HP situation may or may not be related to chip damage.
It seems that people want to feel safe going into a large battle with 1HP because they stacked toughness, toughness dmg reduction and have abilities that regain toughness.
Having 1HP should mean that you already have one foot in the grave. This is how it works in almost every game since HP was introduced to video games.
If you want to compare it to VT2’s temp health, remember that it is temporary health, and this could be one way of chip damage mitigation for melee classes in DT, but that’s a different topic.
Having no chip damage basically means that you are passively healing near your team mates.
Some tweaks to how damage is applied to toughness and what bleeds through may be in order, but removing chip damage would require a complete redesign.
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