one moment there was a time where lingering and famished could been taken at once?
Definitely on Legend the IngOrd completely nullified the engineers own ult as why gun anything down when you can lob bombs with abandon and simply cruise through the level. Getting rid of FF makes it even more selfish as you can throw bombs at another players feet and solve all their problems.
I’ve done three or four runs in a row on Legend as OE without touching the crank gun and throwing bombs around like an irresponsible Grot, and just having a handgun for some annoying specials. It is quite silly. Trollhammer just makes the entire build ludicrous.
Might as well have just given the OE the old stagger-on-crit stupidness from Chaos Wastes that got patched out.
If Ingenious ordanance was something like RV having a chance of dropping a bomb when killed a special it might be better. There just needs to be a limit on the availability and ferocity of the bombs.
Possibly even having it so amount of seconds without taking damage/every 8 elites killed/something else/… gives you another bomb or something rather than just give you free bombs.
Anything that nullifies the unique ult he has at all difficulties not requiring DLC is really bad in my book.
I deicided to come back to this topic for a bump after playing engi exclusively over the weekend.
While using the “free bomb perk” I can confirm its a bit overturned ATM. I seemingly have 1 (or2!) for each fight, yes every fight, every patrol. Im a bomb chucking nightmare! With the removal of friendly fire I am habitually throwing them in the frontline, (causing a huge explosion for my teammates) which is blinding to them.
My suggestion for the perk would be to keep it the same and remove all bombs from the map for that game. This would cause a new dynamic where the supplier to bombs is bardin and would have to hand them out to teammates. (I can already see this being an issue)
My second solution was mentioned above by increasing the cooldown.
Lastly, I would strongly encourage to add back the friendly fire aspect for bombs. IMO, no ff lowers the skill in when to use them.
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Yup, the two were on different rows, that was a thing. A bonkers overpowered thing.
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I would agree with this if his “clutch ability” wasn’t mentioned on the rebalance post, but it is.
Aside from that I understand there could probably be some annoying players that wanna hold up the team as stated on the post above, just so they have have more bombs.
My experience is I could at best get 9 bombs out, I do tend to forget when I have them so I know that’s a me problem, but I also supply the team when I know I have 2 bombs and a 3rd is on its way.
I personally don’t care much for nerfs, towards any character, but considering the bomb generating talent is fun and has OE bring something towards the team, I would say they could rework or change the Bombardier skill.
Well yes, and no, in a sense.
It is a part of the Engineer’s design to be a ranged powerhouse that has to be protected. We want to keep the same spirit of the Engineer, but right now the ranged power to clutch potential ratio is a bit weak.
He got buffs to damage output, health, and the bomb build via one new and one buffed talent, this is less clutch and more just overwhelming firepower + base power to better balance for the weakness that he is still relatively clunky and mechanical (heh) compared to other careers.
Does dropping a bomb on himself with no FF damage let him clutch more…it does, i´d argue it isnt the main use really but it does.
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So in 2024 solving a friend’s problems is selfish?
While I think the difference between RV and engineer’s bombs is academic, I kinda like the idea of seconds without taking damage. I think it might be worse in practice though, especially when you consider FF.
But yes as you said it does let him clutch more by having more bombs at his disposal and OE has always felt lacking compared to other careers, on paper crank gun sounds like a good ult but I still think that’s the worst part of the career.
If Bardin is surrounded while throwing a bomb at his feet then he will get downed, there is still an animation that needs to played out before the bomb is thrown (I’ve lost matches doing this), hence I’m just mentioning this cause I really don’t see an issue, now I do understand the torpedo can be thrown quicker and it would also have no FF since at the moment the talent is no friendly fire on explosives and not just no friendly fire on bombs.
Sharing this last bit here cause it’s my opinion, while I see people complaining about this build and saying the talent is strong, I personally think it’s only strong if you run “grenadier” on the trinket, maybe I play the game differently but I don’t have 3 bombs ready to throw at every encounter and maybe it’s a bug but the Bombardier talent mentions you start with 3 bombs, well I havent started a single match with 3 bombs.
Also adding this cause I thought of it late and don’t want to edit everything I’ve written, for me this new play style is about being able to supply bombs to your team, of course you always wanna have 2 bombs for yourself if your running Bombardier since your bombs are special, but aside from that if someone in your team doesn’t have a bomb you can just hand them a bomb, I like it cause it makes OE bring something to the team.
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My meaning was that the removal of explosive FF damage via that talent does let OE save himself much more reliably so that part is indeed doing well as a clutch method for him.
It does work for that…
But, it is also not the main use, the main use is that it also lets him shoot trollhammer and throw 2 bombs at any horde nonstop without any real penalty for it or minding teammates. This can be considered an issue because if all the hordes lose half or more of their numbers to explosives, often including all the elites, then that’s like downgrading cata to legend. Much like peak SoT/BW. Both whom got nerfed for doing such things, killing most enemies so far that their teammates get very little input by comparison.
And on a sidenote, you can indeed die from trying to light a bomb while surrounded, but, its much harder to die when just swapping weapons and very quickly shooting out a torpedo that practically annihilates nearly everything infront in one go. CW´s included.
Not even moonbow could do that.
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Again I guess I speedrun this game cause I don’t have 2 bombs everytime the game throws a horde at me.
Let me just get this straight, what penalty does any character have for throwing bombs ? Most of the time you can see the horde from a distance and throw the bomb safely, the way I see it them removing the friendly fire on the bombs is intended for when your teammates are swarmed clearly about to go down.
I’ll agree with you this much, they could add FF back to the troll hammer torpedo, people are still gonna blast themselves away, I know I wouldn’t care if someone is in the way but I also don’t like running troll hammer torpedo whenever I play OE.
I know we won’t see eye to eye on this sadly, I just have my points of view and you have yours, just as we definitely don’t share the same play style, I still respect your opinion, I just don’t think this is an issue, but again to agree you I do believe they could add FF back to the torpedo, maybe since they wanted Bardin to clutch more they could make it so he is immune to explosive damage from his bombs but his team mates aren’t, just an idea.
Also gonna just gonna explain my point of view in all of this, might be unpopular but well it’s just my point of view.
When you give a character a play style, that’s good, more options is always good, now say they remove those options, well that’s not good, you never wanna make a character less, yes you can tweak them around but never do you wanna take a character that has to playstyles or 3 and give him just 1 solid play style.
What I want is for OE to be fun, I do believe this play style with the bombs adds a new flavor to him, I like what he brings to the team, regardless of how they have always wanted OE to be played whenever I played him no one bothered to keep the OE safe cause well we are all playing for ourselves.
Now with him being able to generate bombs and having grenadier on the trinket he can be selfish and bomb hordes, if it wasn’t for the Bombardier talent I don’t think a horde would even be thinned out greatly by an explosive bomb.
Sadly I understand people are now mad that he has this option and he can throw more bombs, finally being able to have that selfish moment other careers can have.
I mention grenadier cause I truly believe this build wouldn’t be as strong if this perk on the trinket didn’t exist, I normally go from point a to point B as quick as possible, I don’t spawn with 3 bombs and yes I’m running Bombardier, so I have to wait 160 seconds to have 2 bombs, by that time I’ve already fought a horde or 2 if it was a bad horde probably used the 1 bomb I got.
Just from my experience alone you don’t get bombs fast enough to not let the other players participate and with you generating bombs of course all bombs found are theirs since it’s only fair.
Now if you did start with 3 bombs I would say ok that is a little ridiculous, but again maybe it’s bugged cause it doesn’t work for me.
And my final completely unnecessary bit, I never thought a PvE community would be so concerned over balance, I remember being told “get good” when I would complain about something in Fighting games or Arena Shooters, as long as the game is fun it’s all good for me.
An avarage cata run takes 25 minutes, you get every 80 seconds a bomb. That means you will generate 18-19 bombs during a run. With 3 bombs right from the start you have 21-22 bombs for a 25minute run… AND you have your torpedo. It is exactly how @Frostysir describes the situation.
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Huh, putting it into perspective really, as long as the bombadier bug doesnt happen then 21-22 bombs to start with, both explosive and fire, plus 11? torpedo shots not even counting any refills/conservative.
Thats like going into a game with 31+ bombs not counting pickups, no wonder i couldnt shake the feeling all these OE´s were bombing like crazy 
That´d be about the issue, you see, when OE can blow any and all opposition to bits (chaos patrols&monsters easily included) using a bomb spam at no cost then, what is left for his team to do? They wont have much fun…quite like the issue with old BW&SoT for their most offensive builds.
exactly the 22 bombs are without any pickups and no torpedo ammo counted, it is just beyond stupid at the moment.