"Targeting Array" achievement is ridiculous.

Title pretty much says it all.

This achievement needs to be changed to either “5 Headshots on Elite enemies” or “20 headshots on Elite enemies in one mission.”

From what I’ve seen around, very very few people have gotten this achievement after the ‘fix’ that changed it from 5 headshots to 20.


To add onto this, you can savely use your Crankgun while doing the headshots, it won’t reset the counter. (I’ve done it yesterday and used the Crankgun throughout, still got the achievment at the end)

I wasn’t aware that the shield push would cause the AI to essentially turn off for three seconds on a shove, I guess that would have made it easier.

That being said, 20 is still a heck of a lot of headshots to get in one mission with the Masterwork Pistol, and it’s kind of silly for it to be a singular focus of an entire run through.

You and I have a completely different understanding of what a challenge is supposed to demand of you in a game.

Fair, I suppose, though I’m more thinking of it from a single player perspective where I’m attempting to do a challenge and the bots are just killing everything in front of me that I may be trying to hit anyway.


I honestly had to roll my eyes at a lot of the challenges in the Grail Knight and especially Outcast Engineer DLCs. Don’t get me wrong, I like harder challenges, but these were either: a) I randomly unlocked a new skin for something totally mundane and easy or b) so horrendously irritating I’m not going to spend my limited free time doing them.

Some were good, like interrupt deathrattler’s charge with blessed blade. Not too hard, but a good challenge that helps you learn timing/bosses for new players. Come to think of it, GK’s cosmetic DLC wasn’t so bad (apart from the standard 100 runs to get the hat vs 25 for Outcast Engineer. Wish these were all simply 50 or so). I don’t see casual players getting the 100 rounds one without mainlining one career but those ones don’t bother me so much. Many of GK’s challenges are even a little on the easy side, apart from being nickle and dimed on shillings to get
his weapon illusions, at least with outcast engineer you can unlock them (but the unlock requirements vary between easy as hell and tedious as hell).

Alt fire on masterwork pistol with monsters is just a huge pain, the weapon is so inaccurate in that mode and no monsters last that long - except bosses. You basically have to cheese it or I guess go for bubblepuke halespew or nurgloth. I have zero interest in doing this one.

Cog hammer vs bubblepuke is okay, as are general killing blow challenges, but they’re not really tests of skill, they just force you to get the last hit in. Favours luck when it comes to PuGs or a premade team.

Complete full acts in legend+ without failing or complete challenges 6s apart are more interesting, you have to know about those and it does alter how you approach the rounds, but they’re not tedious.

The 20 headshot one on masterwork pistol in a row just seems like a pain. I could understand it on handgun but with this weapon, with the windup, it’s just easier to staggerlock enemies and blast them then. Totally gimmicky.

Same issue as with the alt fire challenge requiring accuracy, it doesn’t fit the weapon. Again, handgun (or longbow crossbow) would be perfect for 20 headshots in a row. Score 30 hits on monsters without missing is almost the entire magazine capacity on Outcast Engineer, IB doesn’t even have that many bullets for the gun lol. Coupled with the crazy scatter even up close, bots and piercing potentially breaking it, it just isn’t a good challenge. Something fun would’ve been e.g. kill 30 elite enemies in 1 minute using the masterwork pistol to go with the fan the hammer, western kind of style theme the alt fire has going.

The current alt fire challenge would fit something accurate and spammy eg bop or volley crossbow, albeit it’d be a bit too easy on those. Either way, it doesn’t fit MP’s alt fire.

If this is how it’s going to be going forwards I’m not going to be buying the future cosmetic DLCs.


I have to say most are pretty doable honestly. Specially for Grail Knight.
Outcast Engineer a bit less so, since some are just WAY too tedious.
But you can just skip them after all, bit of a waste of the money but still.

So far the only weird ones on Outcast Engineer which are basically just game breaking if you ask me are TARGETING ARRAY, ONG TUK DWE FUT SAK and INTERCEPTING BARRAGE.

What I mean by that is that you have to start setting up a specific scenario just to get these. Cause in a normal game you would NEVER, EVER get these. All the others I could see you hitting simply by accident at some points, specially if you know they are there (like getting halescourge with the cog hammer). Just play with the cog hammer, and you will end up with it at some point in time.

Problem with Targeting Array, even now, is that you will use it for other stuff in the meantime. So you have to go specifically out of your way not using your ranged weapon because you need subsequent elite headshots. That is not even getting into the terrible hitboxes making a clear headshot sometimes go through enemies. In general, just a bad challenge that isn’t worth the time, and I think the only reason it is there is because they wanted another challenge but couldn’t come up with something good, as simply headshots with the masterwork pistol is already a different challenge.

The problem with ONG TUK DWE FUT SAK is, why would I waste THAT MANY bombs on a boss EVER!? So again, not happening by chance (besides carrying a maximum of 3, you would have to play with bots that will feed you bombs, or ask your team for the challenge specifically). Not as bad as targeting array, but still in the game breaking categorie as you need to set it up specifically and will never ever happen by simple chance.

The problem with INTERCEPTING BARRAGE is, why? Why would you throw a bomb at a leaping ogre? Chance of missing is high unless he comes at you, and if he comes at you you better be blocking and/or dodging. Again, not too hard to set up, but again needs to be set up cause it will unlikely happen by accident. More likely than the above ones to happen by sheer luck/accident though So this one isn’t THAT bad, but…

Now you could say Grail Knight having to interrupt deathrattler may never occur, but I feel that there is a decent chance that it could happen by accident, and on top of that it doesn’t have to be set up at least as a scenario. Just do the map often enough and keep in mind you need to interrupt him and you will get it at some point.

Anyway that is how I feel about the challenges. Grail Knight was well done and I agree that OE is a lot less thought out properly, but Most of them are very doable, even the alt fire one (just get really close to the monster).

Well, all of them are just silly challenges. In Verm1 we had a challenge to finish a gauntlet-like map while kiting an ogre around. Did it have to make “sense”? Not really, it was just a fun little thing you could pull off for a steam achievement. If memory serves, those challenges got introduced after the community invented its own for the sake of entertainment. On Man the Ramparts there was a famous run where a group behaved like an american football team, using a black powder keg as a ball that they tossed to each other while tackling the rats.

In regard to the challenge that I quoted, you can pull it up with precisely 3 bombs if you use the talent that makes every bomb count for both effects (frag and incendiary). Just do a quick run on Bell, grab the bombs and chuck 'em at the guaranteed ogre at the end for instance.


Ah so you could actually get it by accident. Though you would have to know in that case that using both effects count as a double grenade.

Then again I don’t mind if I am not getting all the challenges from the okri book myself. Long way from done with it, and I don’t generally spend my time on it. Was just reacting to drakonhammer. Though just now I also notice he mentioned 30 hits on the alt fire, which is the old number I believe.

Considering that his posts makes a little more sense :smiley: and mine a little less so.

I wish they’d change this challenge. Honestly, this is not a fun challenge and is an absolute pain to set up solo. Most of the ‘guides’ on how to explicitly farm this say to set up twitch mode and go to certain cheese spots where the elite AI just breaks. It’s made doubly frustrating when you realize the weapon is so inaccurate you can fail the achievement directly and through no fault of your own.

This challenge should just be changed to not require consecutive headshots. It’s not designed well, it’s not fun, and the challenge doesn’t feel skill based so much as a methodical, tedious parade of trying to kill bots and cheesing elites directly with a friend.

They did so very recently.

Again, I want it changed more because even 6 is tedious as all hell.

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I’m not sure all challenges are supposed to be skill based (I could be wrong though).
This one in particular has not much to do with skill in the game indeed.
Basically just go for a cheese spot if you are desperate enough to get it.
Or have a friend play the new elf class with the staff and disable elites so you can stand right in front of them and get the headshot.

That way you certainly can get it. Tedious indeed, but if you need it desperately, there are ways to get it. You won’t get it naturally, that’s pretty much for sure :smiley:

It might not happen naturally, but six consecutive headshots is a perfectly fair and fitting challenge for this weapon. You can do it on a couple of random elites and a single Chaos Warrior without much trouble.

Seriously, if all challenges would be designed as such that they pretty much automatically get completed if you play the weapon, there wouldn’t be any point to them anymore. At that point you might as well replace them all with “get X kills” or “play X games” and be done with it. Challenges that require making a plan and a certain threshold of skill are a very good thing. And way more fun.


Not when you line up 6 perfect headshots in a row only for the weapon to go: “You missed” because the weapon is not accurate. This isn’t a fun challenge. If it were removed from the game, outcast engineer would actually be more fun.

And I did already get the challenge, but this one and a couple others were tedious, annoying, and actively detracted from the game’s overall experience.

Crouch and the thing has near handgun accuracy.

I did and missed shots that a handgun wouldn’t. Despite the dead center of the aim being on the target’s head.

Then you were trying to snipe acriss the map, your connection was wonky, or you didn’t actually aim right. Because if you crouch and don’t move shooting precisely at a head is quite reliable. Have you tried it as host?

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