Swift Slaying needs revisit

Warhammer: Vermintide 2 Gameplay Feedback
24

Again, swift slaying is not OP. People didn’t use to run only SS… I think it was during the BBB that everything got switched up, as the other talents got a heavy nerf. Resourceful combatant was nerfed from 5% cool down per mob hit to 5% on 1 mob with a delay before the next activation. I think the other traits need a buff, not a nerf to SS

At the same time, I kinda like the idea of SS becoming a passive trait for all weapons. Meaning that it’s just always on, but it would ofc need to be dropped a bit, 10-15% on crit. Or perhaps for heavy weapons like the hammers, big boy swords and shields, it could be triggered on cleave or stagger of a certain amount of mobs. That way you wouldn’t have to stack crit on a IB and so on.

5 Likes
25

The only thing i don’t understand is why some good traits from Vermintide 1 are totally removed from Vermintide 2. Like second wind, backstabbery, skull cracker etc… i know they are replaced with some talents but not for all of them and they only limited for few classes. Moreover weapon can have only 1 trait and not 3 like in V1. If those traits had remained, Swift Slaying were only a good trait in the middle of other good traits. Now for me is the only best one, the other are mediocre.

2 Likes
26

Rapier + Swift Slaying
obrazek

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27

I’d like to weigh in on Resourceful Combatant (and even Shooter) being “questionable” or not as fast at reducing CD vs Swift Slaying.

Under most circumstances, SS outperforms RC at CDR, but these circumstances all revolve around weapons with high cleave. In my testing, I’ve noticed a higher CDR with RC when using single target weapons, very specifically weapons with naturally high Crit. Daggers and 1H axes (not Elf axe, since it doesn’t get a natural crit bonus for some reason).

Stacking on the crit% (coupled with 2x +20% Crit power) single target weapons allowed me to consistently one shot Elites when it crits to the face, 2-shot (body or head) if they don’t fall the first time. Daggers and Axes crit very often I’ve noticed.

Dual daggers on Kerrilian are naturally fast as it is, I do NOT need more attack speed. I stacked on Crit% and Crit Power, RC as trait, Ult dash forward past a horde or patrol, turn around and mow them down one by one using Vanish/Crit dmg boost talents. My ult will be at about 10-15 seconds on CD when everything is dead. My first backstab will guarantee a 4 second reduction on the countdown, then you subtract 4 MORE seconds every 4 seconds from there assuming 95% crit ratio, which happens very often.

Using 1H axe on Bounty Hunter, ok the axe is a bit slow, which effects my ability to live. I had to compensate with Attack Speed x2 (weapon and ring), which made a difference. The axe crits a lot, like the daggers and it is anti-armor, and basically kills anything in a head shot, crit or not. Push attack is an overhead head chop, very satisfying.

If I used SS on it, I end up taking chip dmg due to the lack of cleave, my axe gets stuck on one or two targets then the rest of the crowd pokes me. So I have to play the dance game, LLR > Dodge repeat. SS is wasted during the block and dodge, so RC shines here since it basically procs every 4-5 seconds.

With his Ult talent set for 40% CDR on headshots, Ulting with my axe means 100% CDR (Blessed shot or not) on head shots, yes just like Kerrillian’s Ult talent! If RC didn’t proc, my CD is 10 seconds on a headshot. I find myself spamming it during crowds and mow down a whole column of garbage or elites.

So if you have good aim, RC is worth it. Don’t take my word for it, I’m not making a video to prove this, but I’ve timed it on dummies in the keep and in general play. Try it out yourselves to see if it fits your style. You can math on paper all day and conduct experiments, but it proves nothing in reality if you are not the correct end-user.

Everyone harps on how good the spear or halberd is, but I just suck at it no matter what. That doesn’t mean it’s bad or good, it’s just not for me.

1 Like
28

Goddamn it, there are always these pesky players who just don’t want other people to have fun because of “muh challenge”. SS is not overpowered. The only reason why it is used is because all other traits are trash. There used to be a time when CDR was the meta but that got nerfed to oblivion thanks to players complaining about it being OP, players just like YOU. So no, enough is enough, stop the BS nerf to everything that makes the combat fluid and game fun.

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IDK who you’re replying to in this post, but if it’s to the OP, you’re being ignorant. If a post is TLDR, don’t even bother replying. You just look that much more foolish.

The OP said NOTHING about nerfing swift slaying.

2 Likes
30

OP asked for a complete removal and replacement with innate AS buff, not hard to understand. What you don’t understand is that what is being suggested here will never be implement by FS. Instead FS will simply see this as another compliant on how OP SS is and nerf it to the ground. Look at what happened to CDR traits, no compromise, no buff to other traits, just a straight, harsh nerf. This is the way how FS has always handled balancing changes and you and OP should know it by now!

2 Likes
31

Couldnt have said it better myself +1

32

Thankfully SS can rewrite itself when a crit procs. Resourceful Combatant procs on crits, and considering how often Crit procs on a lot of weapons, that is certainly a bit OP. Not that I complained back when I used that build. The current RC trait is -4 seconds every 4 seconds (on crit), nerf or not, I think it’s fair and works better than SS per my examples above.

Pre WoM, most other traits were indeed not on the same level as SS. But the current meta is certainly not SS meta anymore. Except for Heroic Intervention, I have reasons to select the other traits over SS, I don’t think they are trash by comparison.

If anything, OP, SS doesn’t need to be revisited. It is the other traits that needs a makeover to have them be on the same level as SS.

1 Like
33

Parry is still quite good where it is good. I run parry on a few things. Its a safety net for cata. You can parry an entire herd if you time it well and then you hope that small window open up some room for someone else.

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If Swift Slaying is ever going to be changed, it’ll happen as a part of the traits and itemization overhaul that’s in the pipeline. The “problem” with Swift Slaying right now isn’t so much with SS itself, but rather in that the alternatives are rarely a good choice. When those get buffed, SS won’t be an automatic pick anymore.

Since we’re all throwing suggestions around anyways, here are some of mine:

  • Parry: Additionally, your block staggers twice as hard.

  • Opportunist: Additionally, your pushes cost only half as much stamina.

  • Resourceful Combatant: Just buff its effect.

  • Heroic Intervention: Just replace this one. Maybe something like making allies (and only allies) do bonus damage to enemies you attacked or something? Taunt enemies by attacking them?

  • Off Balance: Make it something like 30-50% damage instead and be able to stack with other damage buffs.

1 Like
35

Yeah but… the balance… you won’t use this for its intended purpose it’ll be meme build kruber spear sweepageddon. I love it.

It was explicitly nerfed to its current point. Perhaps in the current state of play it should be revisited but I doubt it will.

Why this doesn’t stack is beyond me, its basically worthless without stacking. Co O game but were limiting synergy between builds to prevent OP Co-opness.

Parry is still good if situational. Though I like the idea staggering extra hard or perhaps even a knock back effect.

1 Like
36

Fully agree, but just for cheese I will had you can go even higher than 45% (not talking about guaranteed obviously)

Handmaiden, crit on ult, 2hs push attack. But that is really a far stretch :wink:

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Parry should stagger extra extra hard when using 2h weapons like hammer, pick, axe, sword. Why? Because every one of those has pretty slow block ,- you have to wait through whole attack animation, while f.e. 1h axe blocks almost instantly.

1 Like
38

I agree that SS is a tad bit too dominant but i second the idea that it be kept at a nerfed level and base attackspeed be raised while other traits are buffed…maybe it could give like 10% attackspeed+5-10% movespeed?

As for options…i think be nice if we saw something like “every X attack would be a crit/have full armor pen/massive cleave boost/huge stagger” as well, To add some different damage options although some shouldnt be useable on all weapons though as that would end up weird.

Meanwhile parry seriously need a rework or a massive buff of some kind, Heroic intervention ought to be just outright scrapped and opportunist could use something like a “next attack has Y bonus” upon successful use…well parry could perhaps be made to work in such a way but with greater benefits.

1 Like
39

That should be the cost of heavy weapons, thing is they should have a benefit and it shouldn’t be FS will nerf the light weapons to compensate.

Heavy weapons should feel like krubers spear does, slow methodical and brutal. They don’t, not really.

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Yeah, I was calculating the chances from memory and estimating with the current Talents and weapon balance. The 45% burst is still relatively reliably achievable and for reasonable times; you can get hugely more with specific attacks of specific weapons, or using other specific abilities (Blessed Shots, WHC lv30 Talent, Infiltrate…) but they’re less reliable or only applicable for a moment at any given time. And then there are the couple of “you don’t crit normally, but on every fifth attack instead” Talents, that set the crit rate to a very specific (still relatively high) number but remove all the unreliability from it. So yeah, there are a lot of ways to manipulate crits and their rates, and too many things (including SS and other Traits) that depend on them to not care about them.

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Indeed and thus, thoose having less crit chance are quite disavantaged

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