Hmm, if Fatshark removes Survivalist, I might finally stop playing Darktide.
If I can no longer play around my build that allows me to hold down the left mouse button and unload into the hordes in Auric Maelstrom, then I think I’m done.
I’d be very much in favor of reworking the talent or perhaps making it a baseline passive for either the Veteran or all classes so that shooting isn’t only revolve around Veteran, but removing it altogether is a big no no for me at least.
I mean… Veteran is the shooty class. It makes sense that veteran has passives to support being the shooty class…
The most unhealthy thing for Darktide, frankly (aside from the gaping wound that is crafting) is players complaining about what’s unhealthy for the game pushing hard for nerfs or removal of abilities/skills.
Re-working smokes is one thing; they’re largely unused and when they are used if they’re not actively hindering play, they’re doing so little they may as well not be there.
This isn’t the only post the OP has made about nerfing abilities which assist the team.
It’s a COOPERATIVE SHOOTER.
Emphasis on COOPERATIVE.
Cooperate.
Agreed. That time just after the big skill tree patch dropped where the game’s ammo economy was in the toilet was a drag. If anything happened to make the game like that again, I’d probably move on until/unless it was undone.
I’ve said before that I’m not really interested in playing V2 in space.
I don’t run out of ammo on the other classes even without vets on my team because I have other things I can do extremely well besides shoot. Almost like the talent trees are built around different things.
On gunpsyker I will not run out of ammo because I can lean on assail so heavily. Lowest I ran in a triple psyker, zealot group was 200 rounds. I was quite aggressive with the gun.
I simply don’t have to use ammo on shotgun, rager, or tightly clustered gunner packs.
Ogryn still has amazing melee regardless of talent support. You can still chain stagger everything, and with a measly 2-3 talent points allocated you can clear hordes for free with the insane toughness regen.
Do I even have to elaborate on Zealot?
TL;DR I don’t get the claims that Survivalist is necessary if you’re a ranged build on a non vet.
I would be fine with just changing it to be comparable to other aura and then improve overall ammo economy.
Having to always pick survivalist aura because of its insane value is a kind of annoying, especially if I want to invest into some talent from the right side.
I honestly wouldn’t mind if survivalist just disappeared. The vet auras need an overhaul anyway.
In fact, the class has so many useful passives that could have become auras, I’m surprised the class redesign gave us such a boring selection of auras to begin with.
Same. If I want a melee heavy/centric tide game I’ll play VT2. It’s in a much better state anyways. Both vanilla and modded.
I want to shoot my gun. A lot.
So I play Darktide.
I definitely can agree that its an non brainer choice atm and bad for the game in general.
That said simply just removing the aura and replacing it with some other generic aura like 5 % cdr is also not gonna make anyone happy.
Ammo economy on many weapons, combined with Damnation modifiers and Vet’s Survivalist just make ammo too plentiful. Then we could talk about certain weapons, talents, cleave on certain weapons, how precision / finesse damage work on others, certain gun psyker, vet and even ogryn builds. But then we don’t want to balance or nerf things, right? It’s a coop game, it doesn’t need to be balanced. Lets not be anti-fun 
I’m not saying anything specifically needs buffing/nerfing, but implying that balance goes against fun just seems like a disingenuous take to just stifle discussion.
There’s fun in different forms, such as spectacle (frag bomb clearing a room, Bolter gunning down a gang of Crushers, THammer one-shotting a boss), or challenge (fending off a group of Ragers, or those edge-of-your-seat encounters when the game is going all-out to end you), to name a few. They may be mutually exclusive in some cases, but that doesn’t make balance equate to anti-fun
The made me smile muchly.
I kinda like this idea although I guess it still makes it sort of essential to pass that way in the tree unless another route was giving something equally as good. No real change to the current issue.
I feel this might be the best solution, within coherency imo.
The only caveat I can think to this whole idea is, there are builds that deal with long range stuff, like psykers and shield ogryns? Although I dont know how well these work on auric. It also depends on either a good premade team with synergy or lucking out on a pub team that just works somehow. But then, that seems to be the whole game in a nutshell to me 
That’s what i don’t want to see
I want to see buffs not nerfs
It was sarcasm, based on serious “arguments” along those lines we have seen on these forums.
I fail to see how this is an issue. You get scaling ammo for worsening situations. This is not an alien mechanic to other classes.
Psyker get’s scaling CDR unreliant on personal killing blows, and massive AoE damage in the form of soul blaze. So much so that they are the most insane class to take on a melee maelstrom modifier. This an issue? No.
Zealot get’s better CDR for more intense horde density, and infinite throwing knives (underrated blitz once you get used to it).
Ogryn also gets scaling CDR which like psyker unreliant on personal killing blows, and is generally safer when there are more things in melee around him for infinite toughness regen.
I still don’t know what class is suffering from vet having survivalist. Some sort of hypothetical ogryn that wants to spam rumbler, and needs even more ammo pick ups on the map? A Zealot who does nothing, but use Bolter?
They will still run out of ammo with current veteran, or with this imagined scenario where the ammo drops are supposedly more plentiful because of removal of survivalist.
Maybe running out of ammo is the point in which case I say why? The guns that are capable of constantly shooting into hordes and not running out (except one) are quite mid anyways.
Per the above… sarcasm.
I believe they were only being sarcastic about not nerfing things in the name of fun. It’s possible I misinterpreted that though, and the entire post is sarcastic.
Sarcastic or not its genuine argument being made, and it needed countering.
Probably right.
Removing survivalist and just making it part of what Vet does by default would probably be fine.
Have the passive auras just ADD what they currently do and replace survivalist with something equally useful to the other auras.
Extra ‘damage on weakspot hit’ rather than ‘extra weakspot damage’ would be pretty good. The difference is significant and the former is much better.
I wouldn’t mind a crit aura. I know the psyker one gets ragged on, but even 5% crit is disproportionally noticeable on fast firing weapons because of the way crit batching works.
I’ve not confirmed this by looking at actual recordings to count, but I’m pretty sure even crits can “crit” on say MK V meaning a crit batch of 4 from a single crit proc can turn into 7 crits because one of the crits procced another string.
It’s why with still a relatively low crit you can have 100% critical rate on accatran recon VId guns.
That, or a stamina regen aura so I can run Deadeye on more than just revolver.
All of this of course as long as Survivalist is turned into a passive node capable of only affecting Vet, or made baseline.
Then we can see if the ammo supplies are truly balanced around Survivalist. I remain unconvinced of this statement unless someone provides some sort of old patchnote I missed, or wasn’t here to read since I’m one of the people that came back on the Talent tree wave.
I find it weird how there are a lot of people interpret this thread as OP trying to nerf gunplay when it seem like their intend is just to improve overall ammo economy for every team comp rather than relying on Survivalist Vet as a crutch.
The only thing to worry about is FS f up and doesn’t give enough buff to ammo economy to compensate for the lost of Survivalist, or if they’re really struggling they might as well just integrate it to game mechanic idk.