Yeah I think somewhere around 2-3 seconds would make the most sense. Agreed 5 was probably too far.
On the other hand I dunno what to even say to people that say this aura wasn’t exceedingly strong compared to ALL auras (not just Vet’s) or that it’s somehow not still fantastic value for the team. Truly absurd levels of cope.
Survivalist is the worst thing which happened to the vet talent tree’s balance. The talent should be removed from the game, then we can talk about ammo counts on specific weapons and ammo gain from ammo packs.
This.
Survivalist should have gone the way of the dodo a long time ago. And then the classes that need it should get individual ammo buffs. Resource scarcity really can’t be balanced properly while survivalist exists.
It feels totally ok. It’s just ur team runs not with white ammo indicator, but with orange. Just as always someone sees REDUCED (well in this case cd increased) in patchnotes and start crying without even trying to login into the game.
Fatshark is actively fixing this mechanic to not break the game anymore, it’s exactly what they should do, players will have to find a different, less cheesy path
again it’s still 1-2 ammo boxes down from literally 5+ on aurics. On lower difficulties this changes nothing. It’s a way to ensure the hardest difficulties stay hard. Why complain? The game needs to battle the power creep that’s been introduced and this is a great first step.
as for the “bawww vets suck now” angle, it’s still the single best aura in the game
I think you’re wrong.
I don’t think Fatshark knows what they are doing at all, I think they are just looking at data and then hamfistedly implementing changes, which then get either changed again randomly, or even more common, they accidently undo the change in the next patch because they are working on different versions of the game.
They clearly don’t play their own game at all. I’m very grateful to the Community Managers though, because they really do try and pass on our experiences and requests.
Yeah I agree. There’s other changes they could have made to this aura to force people to use melee more or pick other auras.
1.) Make ALL auras for vet have a small ammo refund and the scavenge one just more ammo/no cooldown.
2.) Make it so the ammo you get is delayed. Depending on the difficulty you need to kill X elites/specials to get one clips worth/percentage of ammo back for the team. Make it like a grail knight quest with strength pots but ammo instead.
3.) Don’t put a cool down on the ability proccing but on when you get the ammo. Similar to 2 but make it so you can only get the ammo once every 5-10 minutes even and based on how many elites/specials you or the team killed determines how much ammo the party gets back.
4.) Have the scavenge survivalist ability highlight ammo on the map and give more ammo on pick up… Or have the ammo shared amongst the team (the latter should honestly just be more universal).
5.) Make it so you can’t get the ammo refund based on killing several with one bullet/grenade if you fire a single revolver shot into a line of shotgunners or something instead of forcing a cool down.
No this is a pretty pointed change. They knew exactly the issue was that the increased amount of elites on aurics and hi int damns in general were breaking this talent and making it scale way harder than intended. So their solution, very pointedly, was to give it a cooldown so that exact aspect of it is nerfed while still staying at the same power on lower difficulties.
It’s one of the best changes I’ve seen them make for the game so far, and your complaint makes 0 sense.
The issue is it can incentivize you to delay killing specials and elites instead of quickly target prioritizing especially when low on ammo. It doesn’t promote a good play style.
So make it a micro cooldown!
Oh my god, I said “hamfisted”, and you can’t even disprove me with your counter statement! Did they try a 1 second, or .5 second?
Do we know? Can we try? How long to actually implement? Whats that 3 months? Oh sh*t.
I’m sure they tried different tuning. This patch was confirmed to have been playtested for a while.
The 5 second cooldown works pretty alright from the few games i’ve played so far. Vets still get a lot of ammo for the entire team, as i said, 1-2 ammo boxes worth. How is this not great? All you’re asking for is “but I want to get MORE ammo”. Yeah well maybe you should play a lower difficulty?
This is a GREAT CHANGE! The huge overabundance of ammo made especially playing psyker rather silly. The tradeoffs for psyker make much more sense now. I’d reckon only those who exclusively play vet would think this nerf is bad.
You smarmy git. I’ve been tweaking and adjusting this classes builds since launch, and I’ve been auric exclusive since the difficulty became evidently stagnant.
I’ll play bayonet only if thats what it takes, I’ll still be Veteran. Don’t try and pull the “do better” crap on me, I’m talking about enjoyment. If some guy is running a pistol, with no scavenger talent, and is hoovering ammo, there goes my match because I enjoy using Kantrael 1a. Guess I’m shovel only now. Screw my builds I’ll only play melee so that captain Ogryn can have fun with his Dakka.
I’m done with this topic now.
Cool but you’re still just asking for more ammo.
Vet giving the team effectively 5+ ammo boxes on aurics was never intended design nor balanced nor could anyone argue in good faith this is a good thing for the game. It completely threw off balancing for e.g. gunluggers. They could not exist without a vet, and they also addressed this by giving them more free shots now.
Any “compromise” measure is still just asking for “yeah but couldn’t vet give the team 4 ammo boxes?” to which the answer is really just no thats stupid. It’s just an aura like every other class has 3 of. Having it be consistent 1-2 ammo boxes between difficulties via this change is a pretty good solution and as I said it’s still the sole most powerful aura in the game so whats there really to complain about?
If you ask me I would’ve gone a step further and just made it give people ammo on a timer and completely disjoint it from kills.
the fatshark forum experience
This was one of those headscratcher changes in the notes where I went “who asked for this? when the game is already bleeding players, why go after this one thing that’s going to irritate lots of players without addressing the other auras?”
It’s not the kind of change that’s going to incentivize me to try new builds or make gameplay more exciting, it just makes whatever existing builds I had less functional.
This is my overall sentiment to this big nerf as a whole. Yes, Survivalist needed a nerf, but the rest of the auras need to be competitive as well. The fact that ONLY survivalist got gimped means that now all of Veteran’s auras are bad, while not addressing the issue of Survivalist being the best. They could give it a cooldown of a whole minute and it would still be the best.
Let’s take a look-see at the trees:
Left-hand: built for long-range sniping and damage dealing
Middle: built for support
Right-hand: built for melee/stealth and quickdraw/weapon-swapping
And yet the auras are that the ranged damage tree also gets the single best support ability, the middle gets a depressingly terrible ranged damage buff, and the melee tree gets a tiny movement speed buff.
Speak for yourself. The changes clearly show they want people to be able to play Ogryn gunlugger without having to rely on a vet on the team (but still not making them hopelessly OP if there is one). Good change and I’ll play it more due to it. Isolating the nerf to a balance breaking aura doesn’t exactly mean that’s all they did. You have to see the bigger picture. This also means they have more freedom in scaling difficulty because Vet doesn’t just scale the entire team off any increase in elite enemies anymore.
It’s a much needed step 1 in making the game less braindead easy. They have to look at more stuff still, like the balance between the vet auras (it’s still so OP that it’s the only pick)
Of all the pressing issues facing the game right now, I’m not sure why this is a priority. A lack of difficulty doesn’t seem to be one of the major reasons the game has problems retaining a playerbase, the bulk of the game’s users aren’t clearing Auric missions with trivial difficulty or even attempting them. Implementing this change when the game’s release pace seems to address talents only every half-year means it’s likely to sit around in “Step 1” for a pretty lengthy amount of time, and with no idea or indication that changes to the other auras are in the works or even intended.