Suppression is way worse for the player than it is for enemies

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide Gameplay Feedback
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If there’s a gunner that’s shooting you and it breaks your toughness, you can’t do anything.

You can’t sprint.

You can’t dodge.

You can’t slide.

You can’t shoot.

You can’t even swing your damn melee.

But, if I’m an ogryn with that twin barrel gun that blasts high caliber rounds at a gunner, what happens?

He just casually runs away and repositions.

No stagger.

No stun.

It just makes them move to a different spot, which means that your ranged guys have an even harder time killing them.

See, if they got staggered or stunned, your veteran could use that as an opportunity to get a headshot and kill him quickly.

But in this case, instead of having the gunner be standing still and shooting (Easy headshot), it makes them duck down and run away, which makes killing them 10x more difficult.

Likewise, if there’s a large group of ranged guys, it makes them all spread apart! That’s extremely bad. Like wow, that actively gimps your team if you do that. Before, it was an opportunity for a grenade and/or spread shots (e.g. Ripper), but now they’ve all run away and hidden themselves behind cover and in weird corners, making it infinitely worse for your team.

Why is suppression against enemies so horrendously terrible? You might as well just kill the enemies straight up rather than making them scatter.

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When your toughness breaks, you get staggered, which hampers your movement and foils attacks (read interrupt).

Unless the game refers to this as getting suppressed, I actually thought this is the ‘stagger effect’

Secondly, the heavy-stubber might have the torrent tag, along with collateral along its weapon modifier, but the base weapon only has stagger effect on hitting foes. Their is no suppression on it, unless you get lucky and pickup a blessing which supplies it.

So if your experience with the heavy-stubber is, that it doesn’t suppress, well currently that is accurate.

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Wait, suppression isn’t meant to be inherent to all ranged weapons? What the hell were we doing in the tutorial then?

Also @Seph I was under the impression that suppression on the player was when your character “flinches” while aiming down sights and it disrupts your aim when bullets fly close to you but don’t actually hit you. Also, I hate this mechanic with a passion and would greatly prefer you just have your aim disrupted whenever you were actually hit. Enemies can have a friend get their head blown off right next to them and don’t even twitch, but we get the jitters when bullets are whizzing by 5 feet away?

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I don’t understand suppression

I have 8 meters area suppression on close range kill on my Voidstrike staff, literally makes no difference whatsoever even when i blow enemies up point blank

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Let’s talk about what suppression is.

For some weapons with a suppression/collateral (Two names for the same mechanic, which is dumb) stat, it makes it to where firing at enemies in the distance makes them cower in fear or run away. You can see this behavior in the meat grinder.

For some weapons like grenadier gauntlets and rumbler (Explosives), it seems that it just staggers, but doesn’t suppress, so it actually knocks them down and buys time for your team like it’s supposed to.

But for weapons that actually ‘suppress’, it just makes them run a meter, then fire like nothing happened.

Suppression on the player is whenever you take damage without any toughness. It interrupts any action you’re doing, sans Ogryn revives. If you have toughness, you don’t get suppressed.

Thing is, on damnation, ranged enemies (Even the most basic ones) take out 100 toughness on a single burst. So that means if you get hit once, you’re out of toughness. Once that happens, you can’t do anything to protect yourself besides hiding behind a wall and letting your team handle the situation or frontlining (IF there are melee guys around, and IF you’re not being staggered by the 3 gunners at sniper range with perfect accuracy).

When you dodge, some bullets ‘miss’ you and don’t do anything. While you’re sliding, ALL bullets miss you and you can avoid damage. Thing is, if you’re at no toughness, you literally can’t dodge ranged attacks anymore. You get hit, held in place, unable to dodge or slide until you stop getting hit. This means you’ll take a torrent of damage before actually being able to do anything about it.

Secondly, the heavy-stubber might have the torrent tag, along with collateral along its weapon modifier, but the base weapon only has stagger effect on hitting foes. Their is no suppression on it, unless you get lucky and pickup a blessing which supplies it.

Nope, heavy stubber is intended for suppression. It has a stat for it (Called collateral for some reason, but if you view it in details it does have suppression on it), and if you fire near a gunner (without hitting it) they WILL cower in fear and run away (Which is what suppression is supposed to be according to the game). Hitting them is stagger, which is determined by stopping power (Not suppression).

You can see this by getting a weapon with a suppression blessing on it and killing enemies to trigger it vs. just firing generally around the enemy. It does the same exact thing.

But, this is awful for the reasons above, as well as you anyway can’t fire or reload your ranged weapon if you’re currently being attacked without toughness.

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Eh, I’m not so sure about that. I know for certain that your character’s ADS flinches when you are shot near but not hit regardless of your toughness. This seems to line up with what the tutorial thinks suppression is.

I have just been referring to slowdown and action interruption on being shot as “ranged stagger”. I do agree that suppression on enemies is wildly inconsistent in both stats and practice.

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@Seph,
I’m not argue what your are saying makes sense and all.
But with regards to actual game mechanic’s and logic, their is NO suppression on the Heavy-stubber, the only exception is a blessing whats adds it.
Observe exabit A, the might Krourk Mk V Twin-Linked Heavy Stubber.
Weapon traits, Torrent and the Collateral, among that list of collateral effects, their is only stagger.

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Moving on to exabit B, the Foe-rend Mk II Ripper gun,
Which also has the torrent and collateral trait, this time however among the many stagger effects, suppressions is listed among them.

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On the first picture, it literally says "Increases the Weapon’s Stagger, Impact, and Suppression.

You can even test this out in the Meat Grinder.

Even if it doesn’t directly show it as a stat, it does have suppression and it is 100% testable and works exactly as it does on Ripper.

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Here’s a video showing that the Stubber and the Ripper both have suppression, and cause enemies to cower in fear and run away when you shoot at them (But not hitting them).

Note that this is without any blessings that give suppression on kill or whatever. This is just the base gun.

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@Seph,
Sorry, bad copy past, had to fix the second image, which now shows the collateral list and actual suppression traits listed, with numeric values and what not. And as for that grey on black text, well that indeed part of collateral trait and listed on any weapon with the collateral.

Their is a separate post. bug report I believe already with regards to the stubber and suppression not working, here also was pointed out the stubbed doesn’t have the typical suppression numeric value and effect listed other than the grey on black text which mentions it. So yeah, confusing.

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Yeah, it’s weird that it doesn’t show the suppression as a stat on there (Maybe because it doesn’t actually increase with a higher collateral stat?)

But from having used the Stubber on Heresy and Damnation, there’s definitely a noticeable amount of suppression that you can deal to enemies with shooting at them.

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@Seph,
Good observation and thanks for video, I’ve been shooting at range at foes and they don’t budge / suppress. I could not make them duck and cower for cover, but once up close and personal I’m actually seeing it.

Not seeing the suppression stats listed, complaints about it not working and now actually seeing it work, all rather confusing.

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Yep, it’s an awful mechanic that is inconsistent and even when it does work, it isn’t really that useful. Just causes enemies to stop firing for a second and makes them run away, but only as long as you’re firing at them.

So either as an Ogryn I can frontline and protect my teammates, or I can waste 100 rounds just shooting at ranged guys, doing very little damage, making them spread apart so AoE doesn’t work, and not helping out my ranged teammates actually take them out.

And if you’re at zero toughness, good luck doing ANY suppression. You’ll just be stunlocked to hell unless your teammate bails you out or you can stumble your way to cover (If there is any).

I get it’s supposed to buy time, but at the cost of damage, using a metric ton of ammo (Literally wasting it for suppressing fire), and not having special killing power that Gauntlets have (Which actually suppresses enemies with the blast knockdown), it’s just not worth it at all.

It’s like kickback, like it’s nice for holding enemies off, but when you actually need it to kill something or take care of an enemy, it does nothing on higher difficulties.

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Even when I had a blessing on it which should increase suppression the longer I was shooting, I could not observe it actually working. What I was seeing was them getting staggered by bullet hits.

I rather keep the stubber at the ready the more ideal ranged engagements at short to medium range.
It’s great for mopping up hordes.

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are you sure about that? I thought once your toughness is gone, you are just taking damage and being interrupted. nothing to do with suppression.

I thought the suppression was your weapons sway going crazy inaccurate because you are suppressed. I honestly feel like if you throw a few rounds at AI units they hide, become innaccurate. or try to relocate. The big ogryn gunners cover their face and stop shooting when you mag dump suppression at them.

You can make alot of ranged duck for cover just but sending rounds in their general direction, reduces their fire superiority.

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Shots can knock enemy to the ground.

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The stun mechanics are some of the most un-fun/frustrating things to experience in this game. It’s just artificial difficulty modifier. I don’t find myself getting caught by it often but when I do it’s maximum ragebait. It just prevents the gameplay feeling connected, same with coherency toughness regen. Slows things down glacially. You’d have hoped with a slide and mantling they’d be encouraging fast movement as a way to mitigate this but nah. The design decisions in this game are very questionable.

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Me happily chunking even reapers in the head with a revolver to stun them out unloading on my team: “What are these people talking about?”

I get that they don’t get hitstunned by even a simple laspistol or some such but you can very much control enemies if you use appropriate weapons. The stagger stat is pretty important, even on guns.

Also just people flat out not understanding how suppression works in the first place making topics like this. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ (Thankfully already been corrected at least)

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This you?

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It is. Ranged hitstun is entirely different from suppression and needs adjusting heavily. Gunners (As mentioned in the OP) are also different from the generic ranged mooks, and my issue is largely with the generic mooks being able to hitstun you. Gunners and reapers make sense to knock you back/stun you. (Though even in their case it shouldn’t disable your ability to fight back entirely, you can still pull a trigger)

Nice try at a gotcha though. Two different ideas can coexist and you can disagree with specific aspects of things.