I think the Psyker’s force swords should block bullets (except for sniper shots) as a standard feature, and the ‘Deflector’ blessing should be reworked to improve this inherent property so that bullets are deflected back at shooters at reduced damage, or make it stronger so that it can block sniper shots, or make it so that the bullet block angle is wider or even 360 degrees.
It just feels strange that there isn’t some other clear incentive or advantage to choosing a force melee weapon over a regular one. These weapons are unique to the Psykers, so they ought to have some kind of edge beyond charging them up for one good thwack on a single target.
Also, please can you revert the previous changes so that swords capable of blocking bullets can still do so when the Psyker is reviving someone? You let shielded allies in Vermintide block ranged attacks while reviving, so why wouldn’t you allow the same mechanic here?
The new Illisi-FS might be the strongest melee weapon next to an axe with Brutal Momentum and the Powersword with Powercycler right now.
The Deimos and the normal forcesword are fine aswell. They deal good with hordes, have endless dodges and can take out elites easily with their special. The damage is high and the stagger is insane strong.
So yes, there are a bunch of reasons to pick a forcesword.
The bulletshield shouldn’t become a passive, it’s just too strong. The tradeoff to lose damage or other possibilities by choosing it as the strong defensive blessing it is, is more than justified.
I’d rather FS buff Duelling Sword before they give any more buff to Force Sword, it already have load of better blessing than most melee, good damage, good moveset and fricking unlimited dodge.
I would argue that having a „weapon special that increases the offensive properties of the next attack“ is already a pretty good reason to use a weapon.
At least when assuming that the weapon is well balanced overall and that the weapon special is powerful, which is the case for the force swords.
Bullet deflection is also almost unique to the force sword (even when it comes as a blessing).
So at least two things, that make the force sword worth using in its current state.
Sure. It would be cool if the bullet deflection was a default ability of the weapon, but that might make it overpowered in comparison to the other available weapons, since that unique utility would no longer come with a downside (costing a blessing slot).
Not really. The Obscurus’ and the Deimos’ weapon specials are way too unsafe for them to be useful under pressure. They are great when you are already killing it, but that’s not when you require more killing power.
That is also why the Illisi is the only one out of the bunch whose weapon special is not a gimmick but straight up useful.
Still - they are good enough without deflector built-in. Having access to a number of great blessings, being able to easily build peril and unlimited dodges (albeit not very far) is pretty neat.
Duelling Swords are just in a very weird spot. They cannot be more mobile than the knife, they cannot be better at hordes than catachan and they cannot be better at single targets than axes. Furthermore they are vanilla swords so they don’t get much in the way of high damage special sttacks09 - even though its weapon special is useful for staggering maniacs.
Depends on the situation. I use it plenty when surrounded but you need to make a little space. A push attack and do the special an work. You can still be dodging to make space when you charge up the special, etc. Yes, it’s “risky” but like all risk its a gradation and there is plenty of opportunity to use it under pressure IMHO and sometimes that risk is well worth the reward.
Honestly I would rather keep force swords as high DPS weapons.
I wouldn’t mind a short sword and shield though that had built in 360 warp bubbles. Or shield and mace or something. A blessing to increase the bubble so people can go inside or something.
But! Force sword does have too many blessings for this level of RNG. 12 is too much. Especially if you want to hunt for deflector. If they removed the locks it’s not a big deal. Otherwise it’s pretty rough if you want T4 deflector PLUS something specific.
True. But at least, deflector is pretty much the same at any tier, so T3 and even T2 deflector is fine.
(Unless there is a secret additional effect past increased block efficiency)
Nah I disagree. If a weapon specail is never good when I am on the back-foot, then it clearly falls in the win more category, which is undeniably the case for both Obscurus and Deimos.
Sure you might be able to whip it out real quick in advance against an incoming rager here and there or against a mutant that you just dodged, but that utility is very marginal at best (especially since Psyker has enough other tools to do the same job). In comparison the dueling sword special is way better, as it allows you to stagger ragers safely under pressure while blocking.
Granted deflector does roughly the same job no matter which rarity you have.
I am not even sure anymore whether trading a offensive blessing for deflector is particularly worth it.
The real reason you rarely use special on Deimos is because double stab out damages it anyway on basically anything that isn’t a crusher. On obscurus special light can hit great breakpoints and can absolutely be used under pressure, especially when you consider pushing, Ult, or even trauma since it can almost instantly relieve practically infinite melee pressure.
If you have the time to get a trauma off, you ain’t under pressure.
If don’t have enough sh’it around you that ulting - or even better pushing - is enough to create space in order to get a deimos/obscurus special off without getting hit, you ain’t under pressure.
As long as you are unable to use their specials, while facing at least three elites alone without ulting or using ranged and not take damage it stays a win more thing. Sounds like harsh requirements, but I want my melee to create space for me in a pinch and not that it needs space created for it to be used. Your melee weapon needs to perform the best when you have all the stuff the AI director throws at you directly in your face and that is exactly when these specials don’t perform.
I do get the general point you’re making there and do somewhat agree. I do want to nitpick though and point out that even uncharged trauma has a massive stagger radius and it’s close to instant to swap to ranged and get off an uncharged blast.
Trauma is still kinda underrated but yeah I know this is a tangent now.
I get the nitpick, but trauma has a ever so slight delay when you press right click before you can unleash a geyser (unlike conflag for those who know). If you have enough stuff in your face, then you will first have to create space to get it off.
Range weapons can get away with being somewhat of a win more thing, because they are ranged. Melee needs to perform, when I am performing a fighting retreat and cannot get my ranged out.
As I said in another thread suggesting this recently…
While I do personally always want my force swords to have deflector*, I would be absolutely fine with it staying as a blessing if crafting locks weren’t an issue. That way I could always choose to have it and it wouldn’t be an issue when a weapon didn’t roll it.
*I know opinion is mixed on whether deflector is a must have blessing, but I like it. It’s quite a unique capability (I think it’s only that and the slab shield that can block bullets) that’s very useful if you get caught in the open.
Also, I’ve built my curios and perks around it (a curio with +3 Stamina & +12% Block, +20% to Block on the sword, and three +12% Stamina Regen perks), which actually makes my psyker quite a tank when I need to be, even without having to take the Trait to block using Peril. Not to say that having that much block isn’t useful anyway (enemies certainly have to work to break my block while I’m reviving), but being able to apply it to ranged attacks as well makes it massively more so.