i want to discuss Gunlugger/ Stubgryn skillstree.
Like someone posted in the thread above - Lucky Bullet isn’t worth it. https://youtu.be/Klbc1iCO04U?si=975qnXc6envqFWJa
But someone also said i have to watch the follow up and there is something with crit chains, but couldnt find anything about it.
I now have made some variants of a Gunlugger Skilltree, and read sonewhat into the Ogrynomicon
I have to say that FNP is nice, but i feel i really i do less damage (no +5% / +5% dmg and no 8% critchance?) and also deplete my ammo faster.
I use charmed reload, so i still use ‘Massacre’, but have also tried without.
Acutally run this build for testing and i have to say it feels great, but 10% less damage or even 30% when supressed (Coward Culling) and 8% less crit chance is much.
Questions:
What does supress the enemy and how does Coward Culling work?
What mean “not consuming ammo” from BLO? How long, how much exactly?
Light em Up is really good vs. Monstrosities, but i felt +30% Rending from HoF was also very good, not sure my overall feeling i do less damage also comes from using burn stacks
I sometimes shoot even hordes, but normaly concentrate on Shotgunners, Muties, Packs of Ragers, sometimes Bullwarks and Reapers, but i can deal with all of them with my IIIb club also. It really depends of the situation, my ammo pool, the other teammembers ammo pool (sometimes you run with two staff psykers so you can “waste” more ammo) and if it’s needed to save the situation.
If 2-3 mates are down, i dont hesitate to just trigger PBB and shoot at everything around. You know when almost everyone didnt see the 5 Ragers, Reapers, Bullwarks, Maulers coming + Beast of Nurgle or Plague Ogryn is around i just want to make some space to breath.
I dont have Problems, but i’m a little bit sad not using Lucky Bullet and all + dmg and +crit i can get.
I mean i can and i will do to make sure my feelings arent betraying me.
I just felt in love with the Dakka
Go to meat grinder and start shooting around an enemy. When he ducks and starts to run, that is suppression.
Supression is a separate stat that you cause “damage” to. Don’t know the “range” which attacks must land to cause suppression. Faster firing weapons do more suppression than slower firing weapons. Some talents can increase how much suppression a weapon can inflict. From my experience playing, slower firing and single shot weapons tend to take more time/ammo to cause an enemy to be suppressed. Also suppression only affects certain enemies and not applicable to tougher enemies or specials.
Coward Culling should be giving the team extra damage when an enemy is suppressed. Does it work?
Unless FS says otherwise, I’m pretty positive suppression ≠ stagger and ammo is too scarce to be using it to suppress enemies. I hadn’t seen anyone do a deep dive on which animations count as suppressed and I’m not really bothered enough to find out. Auras are just taxes, there is only 3 or 4 that do anything.
The only time I’ve found suppression to be useful, as opposed to inconsequential or downright detrimental, was with a braced autogun.
A gun with a lot of ammo, but also atrocious weakspot modifiers. Just the right gun to suppress hordes of shooters with.
What also suppresses enemies is the detonation of a power maul charged attack.
It really isn’t a great gun weapon, but it does offer potential bonus damage to the team.
Sadly, suppression makes it really hard to hit targets weakspots, while stagger seems to just reset suppression - though I’m not perfectly sure on that. Few weapons can do both reliably and repeatedly enough.
I just think lucky bullet isn’t worth it personally and you’re better off taking some numb to pain or even down heavy hitter, furthest down on the right I would go is massacre and/or big boom
The shot that procs lucky bullet is unused and stays in the magazine.
Rending is good, especially against elites, but burning is significantly better against bosses while also being very comparable to rending against any target. The only enemy type where the rending talent enjoys a significant damage increase over burning is against crushers, and even there the difference is not massive.
That is why I only take the rending talent on slow firing guns like the kickback/rumbler/gg. They don’t have the fire rate to be able to stack the burning effect, but 30% rending is still very good and usually worth a talent or two.
it’s what most say and i wont say other, becaue people put a lot of time into figuring that all out.
But, i played with it again and i can fire longe, because charmed Reload proccs more often and allways gives me 10 rounds and Mutied, Ragers and in case i shoot Crusher, what is not optimal, but at least possible are dead more quick.
And the supression helps, cant say different.
Especially in this hot situation when hell opens their gates and a bunch of wild creatures and a montrosity run at us or me, it helps me alot to deal with the situation.
And it feels very good and powerfull.
Thanks to 5 Slots i keep both builds and maybe change and experiment a little with them to find the sweet spot for me and what is most fun.
that would only be one bullet and maybe a better option for kickback then?
I dont have evidence, but if i open fire on a nurgle beast, i can shoot a little longer than without LB, more than just one round i’d say.
i think you are right here and so i stick with light 'em up, because i do shoot crushers also, but mostly in panic situations or only to supress them to then switch to club, that does good damage to them.
if i could use both i would, but that would be OP as hell
thanks for the links, really helpfull i will read into them asap.
edit: read into it, the numbers are eye opening, but it feels as if it does much more than the numbers reflect, makes me thinking hard
Math to high for Ogryn, just need to slay more heretics - dakka dakka
Well, of course the shot on a weapon with less shots total is more valueable.
But you’re obviously less able to trigger it.
With the 8% chance (there’s been multiple threads with suggestions on how to make this more engaging and worthwhile already), an Achlys Stubber can proc a lucky bullet almost every second.
If you have the “lucky bullets crit” together with a charmed reload blessing, with 8% regular crit chance you can extend a magazine by over 400%, as long as supplies last.
The Achlys only? Why?
Actually use Gorgonum, but i have watched a video about Achlys beeing good at longe range even without that much dmg.
if i have understnad correctly
Achlys - highest rate of fire, butt less damage/ round, big magazine
Krourk - medium rate of fire, medium dmg, medium Mag
Gorgonum, lowest rate of fire, high dmg/ rnd, smallest Mag.
I will try an Achly, because what the video said about reduced deploy speed, delay to fire, faster movement, faster reload etc. is intersting.
Because it has the firerate. On a slower stubber, it’s slightly less than once a second.
It just serves as an example. I prefer the Krourk.
The Achlys is easier to use as it fires instantly instead of having a delay, but that is in no way connected to lucky bullet.
edit: played a mission with it. like it already for the better moevement and quicker reload, no delay etc.
need to get used to the recoil when not braced, but this is just MM like with all shooters. braced it’s very accurate and you brace it almost instant and much faster than a Gorgonum.
Lacks some damage vs. Flak and Maniac maybe, but its because of the perks it got.
But the amount of ammo and crits and such is hilarious.
Will look for another one, fits my playstyle better tbh.
edit 2: first buy from Brunt i mean dmg is bad, but the Achlys shines also with the other stats i guess
Someone else already linked a Steam guide on suppression values for exact numbers, but as a general summary (of my experience) is shotguns, braced autoguns, bolters, flamers and heavier weapons (i.e. Ogryn) are the most obvious high-suppression weapons
If it has the Collateral stat, it’s typically going to have a stronger suppression effect than other variants - for example, the Columnus braced autogun suppresses enemies more effectively than the Agripinaa (despite the Agripinaa hitting harder)
AFAIK, Groaners, normal Scab/Dreg enemies (except Bruisers, who are the melee-only ones) and elite gunners (not shotgunners) are vulnerable to suppression.
Dregs are more resistant to suppression than Scabs - weapons that can make a Scab run for the hills might only make a Dreg flinch.
i mean dmg is bad, but the Achlys shines also with the other stats i guess