Stronger or more varied Patrols

[Adelion]

@kuli

I would not necessarily change the stats to adjust difficulty but rather compositions. Why not have four packmasters accompany a Skaven pat? Or monks. In fact, why not have monks/zerkers fill all the ‘trash’ slots in patrols anyway, at least on Cataclysm? Or let Skaven pats be comprised of shielded SVs only. Beastmen also should come with at least four banners just to pose some nuissance.

Stats is the simplest change, that is why it was suggested. I have no problems with adjusting their composition. But making larger patrols isn’t making sense. And adding just any unit to them is difficulty I guess as for many of them animations are missing. Lore-wise I don’t know if Plague Monks would even be able to be part of a patrol. Other than that, sure why not replace Skaven patrol by a Packmaster leading two Rat Ogres as suggested in the past:

[Suggestion] Rework Packmaster (and minor discussion disablers)

Let me start with the obvious part. This is personal opinion and is based on my very limited lore knowledge concerning. Generally, I understand where disablers come from. They are here for people to stick together and usually I support everything which enforces co-op play in Vermintide. As such disablers are fine, especially if they get you between the horde waves because you haven’t been paying attention. But during hordes they become unfair mainly because they completely ignore the other enem…

Although that mostly centered around Packmaster themselves the different listed options would still work very well.

@anon75893681

or if you aggro them accidentally.

This is specifically about aggoring them on purpose. If anything I would be okay with giving them a mechanism where they get stronger if pulled on purpose. Would be enough already.

@CopperBack1

simply encourage avoidance.

@CopperBack1

Reward with dice

Already adressed. Patrols should be a threat and should be avoided, otherwise they are missing their intended function. Adding reward for beating them is among the worst one could do design-wise.

@TmanDW

Patrols aren’t really much more or less dangerous than monsters, to which they are an alternative. And they can be plenty dangerous when triggered at the wrong time. Thirdly, a stat increase is the absolute laziest and lame form of increased difficulty.

Just because a few people have become “too” good at the game, doesn’t mean we should make it more difficult. I’ve been in more parties that have trouble with pats than parties that trigger them for fun as well as well, so I don’t really recognise the problem you’re trying to solve either. Turning pats in an “avoid or wipe” situation is also a bit lame if you ask me.

For the A.I. director monsters and patrols are replacement options. That is right. But they are operating on a fundamentally different level. Patrols can be avoided, monsters not. Even after triggering patrols certain careers can drop their aggro so that patrols just go on like normal. If you are off far enough they will lose interest. Monsters will know at all time where the players are and they will come for you as soon as invisibility stops. Monsters have barriers stopping you from outrunning them, patrols have not. Also, unless you are ledging them throwing a bomb or two at a monster does not cripple their danger level by 50 %. By all accounts, patrols are nowhere the threat that monsters are. Which is why FS could use the chance to differentiate them:

• Monsters are unavoidable and a mediocre threat
• Patrols are completely avoidable and are big threat

Even with stronger stats they wouldn’t be a wipe situation, just actually imposing. But as I said above, the “problem” is more people engaging them for no reason. I would be content if you remove this element already. For example making them immune against bombs before triggering and the first 15 seconds after triggering could be enough already. I don’t buy the argument with the ressource dump because magically people always have bombs with them and active skills are regenerating by themselves.
Stat-change is mainly for ease of application. Composition change is the better solution but there are limits lore-wise (probably) and also from the workload needed for new animations.

@freqlectic

They would be a bit heftier if lead by a Minotaur, just saying

As shown in the linked topic. For Skaven having a Rat Ogre led by a Packmaster is within lore and possible. I have no idea however if Minotaurs can be used like this. Like are they tamer when no enemy is nearby? Or have Beastmen their own taming units? If possible, sure why not just a Minotaur to them. Like shown, patrols with a monster in them have been suggested before.