Stronger or more varied Patrols

Boo, out of all the things they could do to make them better you chose the worst options and simply encourage avoidance. Already easier to do then fight them. Should at least bring more challenge or reward in killing or mire sense of achievement in avoiding.

  • Reward with dice
  • Introduction of more variety combinations in patrols to specials, bezerkers,monsters (SV shield rats w/ Globadiers/gunners/flammers)
  • different formations (Wide front, scouting search packs) and realistic aggroing with hordes
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Patrols aren’t really much more or less dangerous than monsters, to which they are an alternative. And they can be plenty dangerous when triggered at the wrong time. Thirdly, a stat increase is the absolute laziest and lame form of increased difficulty.

Just because a few people have become “too” good at the game, doesn’t mean we should make it more difficult. I’ve been in more parties that have trouble with pats than parties that trigger them for fun as well as well, so I don’t really recognise the problem you’re trying to solve either. Turning pats in an “avoid or wipe” situation is also a bit lame if you ask me.

There is however a discrepancy between pats from different factions, I’ll give you that. Beasties are less dangerous than Skaven, who are less dangerous than Chaos. A discrepancy alone isn’t too bad, however, since the monsters, waves, and specials from different factions also have different threath levels. If this discrepancy needs to be adjusted, I’d vote for composition changes rather than stat increases.

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More than buffing them, I would eliminate them completely… I have always hated their mechanics: hide in the nearest corner and fight against the whole world… while the patrol walks quietly one meter ignoring everything. It’s something that kills immersion. However they are also bugged and rgn… and considering that many players suffer from them, I don’t think an upgrade is necessary.

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Skaven patrols are situational and can be really troublesome. I do agree that beastmen are a bit underwhelming though. They would be a bit heftier if lead by a Minotaur, just saying :wink:

Yea i agree beastmen pats are underwhelming. But i’m not a fan of increasing pats hp or size as they are already pretty difficult when looking at them without using resources.

Stats is the simplest change, that is why it was suggested. I have no problems with adjusting their composition. But making larger patrols isn’t making sense. And adding just any unit to them is difficulty I guess as for many of them animations are missing. Lore-wise I don’t know if Plague Monks would even be able to be part of a patrol. Other than that, sure why not replace Skaven patrol by a Packmaster leading two Rat Ogres as suggested in the past:


Although that mostly centered around Packmaster themselves the different listed options would still work very well.

This is specifically about aggoring them on purpose. If anything I would be okay with giving them a mechanism where they get stronger if pulled on purpose. Would be enough already.

Already adressed. Patrols should be a threat and should be avoided, otherwise they are missing their intended function. Adding reward for beating them is among the worst one could do design-wise.

For the A.I. director monsters and patrols are replacement options. That is right. But they are operating on a fundamentally different level. Patrols can be avoided, monsters not. Even after triggering patrols certain careers can drop their aggro so that patrols just go on like normal. If you are off far enough they will lose interest. Monsters will know at all time where the players are and they will come for you as soon as invisibility stops. Monsters have barriers stopping you from outrunning them, patrols have not. Also, unless you are ledging them throwing a bomb or two at a monster does not cripple their danger level by 50 %. By all accounts, patrols are nowhere the threat that monsters are. Which is why FS could use the chance to differentiate them:

  • Monsters are unavoidable and a mediocre threat
  • Patrols are completely avoidable and are big threat

Even with stronger stats they wouldn’t be a wipe situation, just actually imposing. But as I said above, the “problem” is more people engaging them for no reason. I would be content if you remove this element already. For example making them immune against bombs before triggering and the first 15 seconds after triggering could be enough already. I don’t buy the argument with the ressource dump because magically people always have bombs with them and active skills are regenerating by themselves.
Stat-change is mainly for ease of application. Composition change is the better solution but there are limits lore-wise (probably) and also from the workload needed for new animations.

As shown in the linked topic. For Skaven having a Rat Ogre led by a Packmaster is within lore and possible. I have no idea however if Minotaurs can be used like this. Like are they tamer when no enemy is nearby? Or have Beastmen their own taming units? If possible, sure why not just a Minotaur to them. Like shown, patrols with a monster in them have been suggested before.

Lol i know it’s about aggroing on purpose. the part you quoted was just me saying that i find patrols already difficult enough, like when you fight them in a bad spot or don’t mean to aggro because you don’t have any resources. Just like a monster is more difficult when you trigger it at a bad time.

Every team i play in on quickplay uses alot of resources on patrols. i never aggro’d a patrol on purpose when we didn’t have anything ready. Also it’s sometimes better to use ultimates or potions to clear a patrol on your own terms instead of aggroing accidentally in a spot you don’t want to fight them.
I don’t know, it’s pretty strong to be able to kill an entire chaos patrol in a couple seconds with ultimates and bombs but that seems fine for me as you have to use resources to be able to do that. On monsters that also possible, but a bh with a conc can solo a boss, i’m not so sure a bh with conc can solo a cw pat, maybe i just didn’t encounter it yet.

Also i’m not sure i agree with monsters being more difficult then patrols.

Quote out of context you sir are fake news

If you can engage them before they notice you? Of course the patrol is then easier. And that is the point I try to make. You can’t engange monsters before they see you. The moment they spawn they are out for your blood. They are unavoidable. Patrols not which makes them to easy in this scenario.

At least on quickplay, teams are always loaded on ressources. When do people use potions or bombs outside of patrols or monsters unless they are trying hard to farm kills? Which is why the ressource dump is not an issue since you will have them, the two or three situations when you encounter the patrol.

I am mainly against the patrol’s huge vulnerability before they notice you. Two bombs and you have already wiped half of them (unless Chaos Warriors but even then you need just a potion more). In a horde situation and accidental trigger Chaos Patrol is okay. Like I said, maybe just giving them immunity towards bombs before noticing and the first 15 seconds after noticing. Would probably be enough.

Thank you for your great and intelligent contribution to the discussion board.

I mean when a monster spawns and is running to you, it’s also pretty easy to throw bombs at it or shoot it before it gets to you. This just depends about the area. Again, i’m fine with a patrol dying to 3 bombs + potion, or 2 bombs + ultimates, Those are alot of resources. You could also make bosses and patrols invulnerable to invis careers and ranged careers when they aren’t aggro’d yet, or a horde running to you and it dying before it gets close.

Yea agree, but thats not a patrol issue.

Sure you can. But there is at least a moment of surprise and timing because you don’t know exactly if a monster will spawn (even though monster spawns inside a map are limited). So if you have good timing and get the monster alone you can do this. For a patrol you can create the timing as they are avoidable and can be heard before engagement. The difference is action and reaction.

Absolutely not the point I want to make. Removing gameplay elements in such a way is not a good thing and should not be done as horde, monsters etc are all threats you have to react too. In comparison to a patrol going to their picnic with no worries in the world while being unexpectedly bombed by a bunch of murderous maniacs.
We could argue about roamers as these are the only other type of enemies not being directly aggroed the moment they spawn but it is still not the point as most roamers will attack you if you get close enough or a horde spawns (so they are less avoidable than a patrol).

Also, when do you encounter bosses which aren’t aggroed yet? You can drop aggro with invisibility and you are alone (or mutliple people do it). But that is a different scenario. I mean when do you ever see a boss before being aggroed?

If a team wants to spend their resources on a patrol that can be avoided, i would say let them do it. Most players will still avoid patrols and use resources to help them trough the map, it depends how comfortable a player is and how much resources they have. If someone wants to risk getting slide overheaded by a cw when fighting them without resources then all the power to them.

I didn’t say that, i said that when a boss aggro’s you (spawn noise) and it spawns far away you can also throw bombs at it. It’s also not difficult to throw bombs at it when it’s aggro’d to your team.

Yes agree. If you get a monster in a bad area it’s as difficult as getting a patrol in a bad area and aggroing it, the difference is that you have a choice, like you said and i agree with that, i just don’t see the issue with that. I don’t mind players having the choice to kill a big pack of elites, it adds a certain choice to the run. “do we wanna kill this and spend resources? or can we avoid it without wasting too much time and save all our resources for the next fight?”

The issue is that potions and bombs are barely used outside of bosses/patrols. so that’s also something that leads to teams having an easy time making that choice.

but We are going in circles so Let’s agree to disagree.

edit: I do agree that beastmen pats are underwhelming, i wouldn’t mind some extra variety to pats in general or even added in specials that spawn when you aggro one. i also do agree pats shouldn’t get incentives to kill them.

Okay, just one line to check if my english is that bad:

I read this as “You could also make bosses … invulnerable … when they aren’t aggroed yet”. Of course this is some omittence and you might refer the latter part very well only on the patrols. But it is not clear from the sentence structure for me.

Yea it was it was meant for the patrols. cuz i suck in sentences

Why is that?

I do agree patrols should be buffed.

CW overheads should do more damage than other elites. I don’t know by how much, but more. A few more shields would help.

As others have said, SV are simply too easily staggered-locked on mass.

Wargors are such a joke. Like a bizarre parody of a Mauler. No idea how to fix them. They seem to be balanced for Weaves (not a good thing imo) where they get spammed. Beastmen patrols could benefit from always triggering an immediate ambush when aggroed. Banners could probably have a small boost in health. A few more Bestigors would go a long way as well.

Are you sure? Maybe I’m late and they’re have been edits, but I don’t see any lies, just disagreements. Pretty sure Adelion isn’t a liar.

Adelion just missed copperback’s point, which happens, it’s not a big deal. Missunderstandings and glossing over certain things can happen alot faster then we sometimes realise.

If i could give my opinion on this question. I don’t think patrols should be pushed into avoiding at all costs, like ‘if you aggro it you wipe’ kind of scenario. I also don’t think patrols should get incentives to kill them. I think there should be a choice: do i spend resources and aggro, or do we skip? The reward for killing a patrol is that you have the area to your disposal (if it’s a circle pat), or that you can progress the map faster and get to a more favourable position before the next horde spawns, for example.

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Needlessly belligerent, spelling errors, bad grammar and punctuation, calling somebody “fake news” unironically, apparently still driven by brainwashed hatred for a politician that hasn’t been relevant for 4 years… It’s quite clear you won’t add much value to any discussion here. So sod off and keep your inane ramblings to r/thedonald and let the adults talk here, will you? Normal non-crazy people aren’t impressed with numbnuts shouting “fAkE NEws!” and “hIlLArY!”.


On topic: I’m still not convinced ambushing a patrol is even a problem. You want to spend equipment and ults on them to take them out preemptively before the situation gets out of hand? Good play, has tradeoffs, tactical decision to do it or not. You don’t want to spend equipment and ults? Tradeoff is a fight with all the risks attached to that. All good as well, no need to change anything there. You want to do all that without needing to? Uh, sure, knock yourself out. Complete waste if you ask me, but it’s your game, right?

And I’m also not convinced pats are so much less dangerous than monsters. A triggered pat during a horde & with specials in play in an unfavorable spot is a game-ender. Sure, if you get them alone you can take them out without much trouble. But the same goes for a monster. The danger spectrums of a pat and a monster are not that much different. And even if there’s a discrepancy: The random spawning of enemies makes every run in this game differ in difficulty somewhat anyways. Having either a pat or a monster spawn is just another factor.

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Don’t be a grammar Nazi it’s hard to text on this site, and don’t get triggered by obvious political troll. Attacking character instead of argument such a low punching adult must be hard to pick on kids from your high horse.

I count snip quoting to change original meaning as a lie call it something else if you wish the gist of the meaning remains the same.

It does look nice as if your making a valid point but so do all major news outlets.

Ah, off course, the good old “just a joke” when somebody calls you out. You were obviously “just trolling”. In fact, it’s clear that you are the a poor little victim here, mr. “YoU’Re FAke NewS!”. Of a mean big grammar nazi on a high horse, even! Also, I got “triggered”. And the reason you can’t spell properly is, obviously, the website’s fault. Come on, you might as well have blamed that on mainstream news outlets as well. Makes just as much sense, really.

Thanks for underlining my point better than I ever could. I’m only suprised I didn’t get called “beta cuck” and / or “shill” somewhere as well. Go back to whatever heavily moderated safe space you still have festering somewhere in a dank corner of the internet that hasn’t been banned yet. You’ll find your childish drivel doesn’t really hold up well with peole who are not indoctrinated in your ridiculous internet culture, regardless what your fragile ego and your fellow trashbags have convinced you of.

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