o7
1 Like
I think Fatshark got some work done for the Microsoft cash then just buggered off again… Game is in maintenance mode. What a wasted opportunity this game is… Look at Helldivers 2 Mr Manager for some pointers.
2 Likes
What exactly is the definition of effectiveness in that case? 
I only ask because I absolutely cannot reconcile my definition with the crafting system in Darktide. It’s neither efficient for the player, unless you have the RNG luck from hell, nor for the developer, as it obviously doesn’t necessarily contribute to player retention…
Of course the system works, but that is also an absolute minimum criterion to be able to call it a “feature” of this product at all. Unfortunately, basic functionality does not make a good result.
My problem with the whole game isn’t just the crafting itself, I went through all the drama in Vermintide… It’s just this feeling of disillusionment when you play the game for a few rounds… all this wasted potential and the big pile of sh!t (with a large part of it being the premium store) that lies on top of this gold nugget of core gameplay that ultimately makes me turn the game off or not turn it on at all.
1 Like
The part that saddens me too, is they didn’t have infinite time to fix this. New competitors would come out in the co-op scene. And while I would say “tide” games are a unique genre and Warhammer 40k doesn’t have that many video games that pull in an audience… People only have such limited time and money. And for a cooperative game people are going to go where their friends go. If the process of gear is a frustration generation machine of throwing resources down the drain, compared to something like HD2 (which for sure has a grind) then it’s going to take up that space. Especially when those frustrations are absent and the road to progress is laid out clearly for new players and working towards end game gear their friends have doesn’t seem like a nebulous, uncertain, difficult, long, and painful process all at once.
I think the saddest part is new games will keep coming out and I doubt Fatshark could keep up now. Maybe if they had fixed crafting soon, maybe if the RNG was never there from game launch, it would have had a dedicated player base that was more resilient to new competitors in the same space. But now, I am not so sure. It’s gone on so long that even if they fix it all, it’s not going to be recieved with joy or thanks. It will just be a bitter acknowledgement.
“Thanks for fixing the broken car you sold me two years ago. Yeah you fixed it, but it took you two years. Do I really feel like congratulating you after you advertised it wouldn’t be broken in the first place and promised me it wouldn’t have these problems? I just won’t buy cars from you likely. And I have already bought a new car since it took you two years to fix this one. I don’t want it anymore. I would sell it if I could”.
12 Likes
I’ve had more fun with helldivers in the few days its been out than the 1.4k hours solely because progression isnt a gamble its unreal (Farming samples to make stratagems not suck is lame tho)
At the rate of how this game updates killing floor 3’ll be out, darktide’ll be nothing more than a bad memory for me which is very unfortunate given I’ve waited years for it lol
@FatsharkCatfish btw if fatshark wants to keep me playing darktide you’d do well to add in the level of enemy body damage helldivers has ty lol
3 Likes
I agree, but the problem will be that crafting as it is now will take any new content down with it. The drive is simply gone with Darktide, it started with a horribly botched release, then half a year until there were significant improvements with the class system and since then the game has been bobbing towards its all-time low again… the 3 new maps and the twins didn’t really excite the masses either (at least if you look at the Steam charts). I think that’s a difficult situation as a developer, especially since the competitors aren’t slowing down. To stick with the automobile analogy… I think there simply needs to be a new model and only then new features and coatings. And a fundamental overhaul of the pain points, especially crafting. And then at least double the speed of new content packs that also deliver relevant content for all players and not only those with deep pockets full of premium currency. Unfortunately, a little something every 6 months no longer works these days. New weapons hardly have an impact on the player numbers because nobody wants to “craft” them anyway, a new map every now and then, great… you play it a few times and then you’ve seen enough of it again and hardly anyone looks at the 2nd in the series because it’s only Map 1 backwards anyway up until the next drop half a year later… It simply has to come faster with more events and player involvement. If the actual game received new content as often as the premium store, then I think we would be on a better path. But yes, it may be too late for that and even if FatShark manages to turn things around, Darktide will probably never mobilize the masses it would have reached with a decent release.
7 Likes
Honestly if I’d known about Fatshark’s rep I would’ve been far less enthused about this game.
They fundamentally can’t release and support an actual live service game. Their structure doesn’t let them, and they refuse to change despite multiple catastrophes that in a sane company would’ve resulted in company restructuring and a lot of people being laid off.
9 Likes
I’m reading that with your profile pic in mind and it’s glorious.
5 Likes
Tbh i think it’s quite easy considering the state of modern game industry. A lot of youtubers like to farm dramas about disasterous releases, aswell as they like to farm stories about comebacks. Need just one spark and things will snowball.
But FS is a wrong studio for this, atleast i don’t believe in such miracle (playing their games since first Vermintide). Probably Darktide will be just an ok game.
5 Likes
To be fair - the community worked hard during VT2 to push that game into a good spot. It also had a rough launch, and Winds of Magic was poorly received. But the Chaos Wastes and pace of new career releases (Sienna excepted) and new maps was well received and I think most players like where the game ended up.
So when Fatshark started talking about Darktide and “all the lessons learned” from VT2 being applied to Darktide there WAS very real excitement. Tons of people were saying, “ahhh… the crafting system they are talking about sounds like a spicier version of the Athanor/Weave-forge system, this is going to be awesome!” All the QoL features that worked their way into VT2 (initially provided by modders I might add) we assumed would be there at launch for Darktide.
Darktide launch was SUCH an unfathomable let down for VT2 fans. It was a total step backwards and we were like “uhhh… what lessons exactly did you learn? I’m not seeing that ANYTHING was learned.” Heck, totally obscure bugs that were in VT2 and fixed in VT2 REAPPEARED in Darktide. Like… what is happening over there?
Yes exactly. Something is just fundamentally screwed up in how they manage their product development and delivery. Speculation abounds. But after the awful DT launch, partially redeeming themselves with the class overhaul, only to then crap the bed again with their obstinate silence and dwindling player count, all in the context of some legit competition in the genre, doesn’t bode well for Darktide OR Fatshark.
Conjecture here, but I wonder if FS is pivoting to developing versus mode in Vermintide 2 in the hopes that it will inject more life and users into that product, because they don’t think they can salvage DT and that’s its worth sustaining. RIP 600 hours spent banging my head against the walls of the crafting casino if the servers go down…
11 Likes
I wish it was in maintenance mode, then we could expect maintenance at least.
11 Likes
These are the deep burns I still come here for.
8 Likes
4 Likes
Fatshark, have a gander at how a fellow game studio with rightfully disgruntled fans handled their crisis:
Links
Patch 4.2 Shadows of Change Content Additions - Part 1: Cathay - Total War
Patch 4.2 Shadows of Change Content Additions - Part 2: Tzeentch - Total War
https://youtu.be/YXZ4-KAWc8w?si=wue-23ymWiareVVF
To put it in simple, unambiguous terms, you have f*cked up to a considerable degree. Here are your two realistic options going forward:
A) You provide direct, transparent and honest communication from your higher ups and you have to do this imminently. Not just about what you’re working on, but what the hell is going on in general. This is not optional if you want to come out of this with any degree of grace, integrity or community goodwill left.
B) You continue to ignore these issues and watch as this product falls into further obscurity and non-viability and cause irreparable damage to your studios reputation and future.
I don’t know what you could possibly have left to debate. Reality has laid the path down for you, but you actually have to walk it.
10 Likes
See, it’s immeasurably complex…
(translation: That one A**hole in management who’s buddy-buddy with the higher-ups thinks he’s saving the game with ‘player retention’ and refuses to sign off on changes)
More realistically, they probably have just moved to maintenance mode.
5 Likes
Whilst in reality he’s doing the complete opposite of keeping players.
1 Like
Effectiveness in that the RNG odds are not as bad as they feel. There was a now long dead post awhile back, which actually ran the odds on getting a decent weapon, and they were… reasonable sans a few outliers with too many blessings or ones needing two very specific ones to be good. It actually does not take that long to get a good weapon if you’re actively trying for one in most cases unless you get particularly bad luck. I’m certain the developers who created this system ran the same odds and decided that what we have now is the perfect average balance of time/cost vs. reward.
Unfortunately, we all inevitably have these times of particularly bad luck, and I think its those experiences that we remember, not all the times before when we actually got what we wanted relatively painlessly. Plus, the anxiety of dealing with a system that can produce such results leads pretty much everyone who tries to seriously engage with the system coming away with a negative impression. And for those who engage with it casually, the system itself is obscure, unintuitive, and unengaging enough that they most likely have no interest in participating in it either.
This is what makes the system a failure. It doesn’t matter if it’s “functional” in that in exchange for the intended cost of time and resources you can almost always get what you want from it when the system itself is painful to interact with in the first place. But, it is at least effective at its primary purpose of providing a system to acquire and upgrade equipment.
As an aside, I don’t think the game is dead. FatShark tends to go dead this time of year while their employees mess around and create a brainstorm up a bunch of stuff they think might be interesting, then after a month or two they decide which direction they’d like to take and actually start releasing content. It doesn’t seem like they have a lot of intentional foresight; they work on what they think is interesting at the time.
2 Likes
I agree there is a problem about the time needed to get what you want…
I said it few days ago.
In fact this make this game unfriendly for any casual player or people that don’t want to involve too much in this game. And sadly, this game is perfect for such players (no clan, no persistant world) and also the worst (too much time needed to get materials you need).
Problems are:
- Getting a good base weapon takes lot of time (Brunt / shops are not solutions for this). For brunt you need 600 / 800k ordos to get 1 good base weapon… if you’re unlucky… you need 600k ordos again
- Materials: we need more materials in the missions. They don’t even need to put more plasteel packs, just an increase of the amount a pack gives you.
If they increase the number of weapons we can craft by allowing us to find a good base weapon and by granting uis more materials, the system, that is painful, could be “somewhat” acceptable. It would not make it good, just acceptable.
3 Likes
I could maybe tolerate crafting if after level 30 every additional level increases the base rating floor for weapons by 1. So if you’re true level is 90 Every.Single.Weapon from brunts, Armoury, and Melk, should all be 380.
7 Likes
Agree 100%. My friends and I play for a few hours just once a week, we don’t focus on items or builds or the grind, we just play a few challenging maps to have fun.
Additionally, usually with grindy-type games, there is a desire to want to grind/progress. This is what I think Darktide is missing. The desire to grind isn’t there; The lack of satisfaction from grinding isn’t there.
I find this fun! I can finally try new weapons and builds. And when we win, friends typically say it’s easy and we bump the diff.
2 Likes