You say you can clean legend with one hand in the back and not ready for cata? 
6 Likes
This all is key, right here.
I don’t care if they want to add weaves or versus mode, but make the base game more player friendly first! They don’t respect our time and they don’t respect our wishes. The only reason we are still around is that they somehow stumbled on unparalleled fluid melee combat.
FS thinks they know better, well, the audience has spoken and they clearly don’t.
BTW, Krator is just trolling hard. Best not to feed the trolls.
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Honestly this is where Smiter, Bulwark, Assassin and Mainstay should have gone.
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It absolutely does matter, when your customers are unhappy about key selling point of your product, that is major problem for any company.
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The more I play this game (and I have been playing it from day one) I have a feeling that someone at fatshark is stubbornly holding to his/hers vision of what this game should look like without caring too much about the feedback. Yes yes, they do listen, we’ve seen that, but here you go, they have just spent 9 months of development on WoM and we can all see the results.
How else can you explain that a game with this much potential is using so little of the same? How else can you explain that the majority of players have been asking pretty much for 5 same things over and over and over and over again, but those things are not being implemented/not being worked on. How else can you explain that the biggest feature of the new DLC is something that not only that we haven’t asked for, but even worse, majority of us are not liking (in its current form).
Stubbornness? Arrogance? Incompetence? I really don’t know.
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in a way i agree. fs has never been too good at listening to its base.
on the other hand the base is a bit tricky because the vast overwhelming majority of noise heard is from a very, very small fraction of players. this group of players is disproportionately heard over everyone else.
the dlc sucks. flat out. i wont debate that with you because its pointless because we both think so and most likely for precisely the same reasons.
the changes to combat mechanics isnt part of WOM and has nothing to do with it.
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It would have been to bring a large DLC with 4-5 new maps, or a cosmetics store, or a weapon-only DLC with 2 or 3 for each hero, or bring V1 maps such as Drachenfels or Karak Azgaraz, or new NPCs for the castle , or a new hero … All these things would have worked perfectly.
But no … It was better to change the entire combat system and create Weaves, which NOBODY requested.
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3 months of constructive beta criticisms seems to run contrary to that. And in fact regardless of what the community on here thought, things would still be as they were if they suddenly weren’t being slammed with a massively low approval rating on steam.
No clue what happened between BBB and WoM Betas that philosophized stress testing changes and making adjustments before you shoved them into live.
“everybody that hates the changes are just bad” right? This is such a timeless joke of an argumentative stance that it was parodied in world of roguecraft 13 years ago.
I mean weaves were conceptually a neat idea if they were procedurally generated had an actual dual layered progression system that looped into games, were actually balanced in their upper limit (because let’s be real, it’s hard to accept that anybody on QA played anywhere close to the 100s) and a myriad of other things. Well. We’re talking about intent still. The end result was indeed shabby, as was that cheaterboard they threw out there.
But the potential was there for something pretty damn great.
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Well, weaves are kind of bad. Here I agree.
It’s not really appealing when you know you’ll have to grind again soon and people hate the grind and rightfully so. There isn’t really a good reason to grind. .Also weaves being non-random takes them further from common definition of fun. Who asked for leaderboards? I sure as hell have not. also consider cataclysm to be badly implemented since it’s balanced via increased HP pools, which is just a bad design choice and makes transition from legend quite unnatural and painful (have to relearn what kills what, and completely change my builds).
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I get it, that devs should have their own look at the game, but it should not go far away from what their customers want, or it will turn bad.
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There are, realistically two different major issues with the current state of VT2.
Firstly, and the thing that is completely distorting all debate is the monumental amount of bugs in the game. I mean this thing is seriously buggy. Lots of tiny bugs that affect hero power by talents not working properly, or Staggering Ult not working properly, Guns not getting the right damage, Look at the Bug Forum - it’s actually getting spanked with new bug reports - Dozens a day. This is without the Beastmen being simply unjust in the way they down players and the AI director being even more spikey. 2 stormers, a globadier and a hook rat on Warcamp and everyone is split up… which leads on to…
Secondly, the fundamental changes to combat aren’t a matter of opinion. The damage, HP pools, dodge timings and stagger bonuses are all absolutely objective facts with rock-hard evidence in the form of HP tables, dodge time windows figures in …ms and an increase in power for every hero, which means a complete change to all Enemy health, behaviour etc. To suggest the combat is the same ignores these concrete and identifiable alterations.
So - massive amounts of bugs affect everyone at every difficulty level, GitGud doesn’t apply to bugs as they’re simply something that shouldn’t be there and whether or not that player is “unskilled”, they still are entitled to receive a product that actually works. Even if what the Dev’s intend is completely different than the players expectations it should still bloody well work. This isn’t Early Access, it’s a PATCH to an existing game… that to a large degree did used to work and was almost bug free, even if it did have it’s own balance problems.
A player, no matter what level they’re at, shouldn’t have to develop new techniques to be successful in spite of horrendous bugs.
[hyperbole]
A Restaurant that has served Steak in Ale Pie and Mash for a year (and it’s one of the core things people like about eating there) that suddenly removes Steak in Ale Pie and makes it Steak in Stilton and Smoked Haddock Pie can expect to suffer the ire of the people who have enjoyed Steak Pie for ages.
“You’re just not a connoisseur of food, learn to appreciate food better”
“It’s the Chef decision not yours”
“I like it so maybe there’s nothing wrong with it, YOU need to learn to enjoy it better”
“New customers like the new Pie, so that’s ok.”
“It’s got steak in it, same as the old pie, it’s the same pie really!”
Trip advisor reviews go through the floor. Restaurant suffers and lays off staff, struggles to pay bills for a year as they recover from the awful press and reputation damage.
[/hyperbole]
Please FS just fix the damn bugs. Then we might possibly be able to have some kind of level playing field to actually discuss the difficulty properly. And I’d quite like a version of Steak in Ale Pie back please!
15 Likes
But seriously, what bugs? The game is exactly as bugged post 2.06 as it was pre-2.0. Yeah, 2.0 was buggy, but it was fixed in a matter of days. And combat is essentially the same, just a bit more difficult and requiring more attention from the player. All the fun factors are still there. Your analogy is actually wrong. They may have changed the plates and tables,food may look a bit dofferent, you may get a bit different knife and fork, but once you bite into it, the taste is as good, as ever.
Take a look at the bug category
1 Like
Mostly agree with your points, just wanted to mention that there was at least four things that community asked for, somewhat often, were addressed in WoM.
First is — shields and two handers got a buff. Shields are more obvious, hammers/two handers got more damage potential/dodge buff (hammers moreso).
Second — complaint about “Legend being too ez”, I saw it somewhat often on reddit. Cata takes care of that, and yes, Legend is harder now too (which, I agree with you, is a problem, en masse). Also in same category is people asked for harder “endgame”, and FS tried to deliver us their vision, which was, well, let’s say — “not much liked”, it seems. Still that was a response to request, however poorly executed it turned out to be.
Third — new maps. Well, it’s only one map, and some backward-going prettified old maps variants. But it is new, and it is there. It is kinda funny number for nine month of work, but it is a number still.
And fourthly — somewhat rarer thing, but one that I personally found more needed than first three is many of talents were same’ish across careers, and overall lack of unique and cool talents. I’m very grateful for more unique talent trees we have now. Although, once again, FS kinda stumbled there, cause now we have not one but two lines of pretty much same talents across all careers (thp + stagger). And some old unique talents went “poof”, too %-(
And, probably, some other things were addressed too — but those are the four off the top of my head. (EDIT: ofc, whole new enemy faction! How could I forgot that one! Plus — five new weapons, ofc. Major requests — answered).
Other than that, yeah, it saddens me to see such an outrage, which totes can be if not fully, but at least somewhat, alleviated. And I do hope that game will survive it, and gets better, cause I’m still addicted to its combat system, stagger or not. I want for more guys to enjoy this game and give it a good word, and slay many a rat and heretic for the glory of Sigma %-)
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Well, most of those are benign and easily avoided. I for example have 0.issies with bugs since 2.06 other than Righteous Stand one. Yes, it is sometimes annoying, but generally - bad bugs were there pre 2.0 too and in numbrrs, f.e. jumping down the ledge to move onto another section of map randomly resulted in death since like always.
Yeah that was awful but I think it was shadow fixed (or fixed with 2.0). For the rest there’s an awful lot of manevolent ones which hopefully boil down to a few changes. So, while I agree some 1.7 ones were the worst offenders, the sheer number greatly increased, and while being less unforgiving, put together they are way more annoying (for me) and harder to avoid. While awful, you could just avoid jumping unnecessary ledges before, now it’s hard to say what to do beside hoping, reporting and waiting
EDIT: In other words you could play past the old ones like a new deed modifier (ranald’s pointless deaths) while the new ones mess with the core combat mechanics - hit through block, phantom swings, stacking and hitting through other enemies and environment, silent and double specials stacking. As such, they make the game feel more unpolished
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There were a lot of good things added with the expansion (Beastmen, I like the new weapons, I like the new map). And yeah $20 is a low entry for me. But what I’m not going to do is upvote the new game mode that I don’t want or like, that will now be a development sink and get prioritized over the things I actually want out of the game.
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But you can’ “avoid” jumping down some ledges since it’s required to progress through the map (all the “1 way passages” are pretty much downward jumps with rare exception of doors closing behind you).
Yeah… New faction… Ok, I won’t drag out. It isn’t a new faction, it’s an extension of chaos faction.
Well, for me — they look different, they fight different, they feel different = they are different. Also, new %-)