Hey remember the event where those gunners had radios on their back? Why not reintroduce them as enemies designed to help the horde (ranged enemies in particular) sus out stealth users if they use the ability often (say 2-3+ times). It’d force users to think before mindlessly popping the ability and make the enemies feel more dynamic in adapting to your teams tactics
Ah, tale old as time. Create a problem by repeteatly dumping agro on the team, then offer a “clutch” by ressing someone using invis.
Sorry for what I will write… because there is no hate against you.
But… Boring to see posts that just want to push to nuke gameplays.
I don’t use this gameplay, and I think that the zealot stealth is too strong, however I will always be against saying that this gameplay or this other one have “no place in this game”.
Just nerf talent or weapons…
Basically two perfect posts with nothing else to add.
The guy saw a toxic player abusing an ability, and now wants an entire playstyle removed, when in the past the devs even refused to change Power Sword to Relic Blade’s mechanics, because they didn’t want to upset people who enjoy the current version of Power Sword.
Smite, stealth, etc have never been a problem in this game the way people described it on forums. I’ve seen people with toxic playstyles and behaviours play all types of ultimates.
it’s possible to have reasonable discussions about these things that don’t agree with the op
i agree stealth is implemented badly and is bad for the game in its current state, but i disagree the solution is to just remove it. but you also don’t have to say it’s perfectly fine and there’s no problem just because you disagree with him. there’s no need to jump from one extreme to the other, you don’t have to invert his position perfectly.
i find it hard to believe you genuinely think stealth is a well implemented mechanic that doesn’t have certain game design issues that cause cheesy and disruptive play. it’s similar with smite. it’s cool when used properly but it has some big potential to kill the flow of the game, i don’t think these problems can just be handwaved
Stealth has a Place, its not the Skills that are a Problem, its the Mindset of a big Portion of Players who use this set of Skills.
You could actually be one of the best Teammates with that getting behind Enemy Lines and wiping the Gunners, Priority Enemies and save a lot of Pain for the Team.
I feel you on that regard. Players that wann roam alone, play alone and selfish, but play a Coop Game, especially one, where a single Player can make the whole Lobby getting Wiped out, for not other reason than being a d*ck!
i think very concretely you could fix a lot of stealths problems if enemies did not instant adjust ai. make it like smoke where they keep shooting in the direction they last saw something in, and make them chase to where they last saw the guy instead of just instantly snapping to the next target
it’d keep stealth intact the way it works now for the people who enjoy it while actually removing the griefing potential almost entirely. it might also help combat speedrun stealthers quite a bit if enemies keep chasing one direction if all you do is run ahead in one direction
it’d also just make way more sense and feel more immersive which should be a goal for gameplay too. you could then actually lead enemies into an empty cul de sac and then pop up behind them. seems like it could be cool
If you don’t speedrun missions with Stealth, it’s underpowered on Veteran if played alongside the team and kinda hard to play on Zealot for most people, hence you rarely see anyone in Havoc using it, and realistically more likely to see dash zealots than stealth zealots.
The stealth gameplay revolves around “get in and out” playstyle where you dive key enemy targets to remove them for your team to ease up the pressure, only to go back to the team afterwards so you don’t get caught in a line of fire of 20 gunners which all target you at the same time, because threat reduction doesn’t do anything if there are no teammates nearby.
That, or do mission objectives which is nothing toxic, quite the opposite, considering how many quickplay people, to this day, ignore doing objectives for one reason or another. When I play Stealth in normal missions or Havoc, I’m usually the only person carrying cells and doing data interrogations.
I play both ultimates in both auric, Havoc and expeditions, and they’re useful and non-toxic if played properly. This whole thread is based on assumption that Stealth is inherently toxic, inherently broken ability that ruins the game, which is far from truth. I’m not gonna treat this take like some kind of fair assessment, coming from someone who’s probably doesn’t even have a decent experience with using the ability, because he doesn’t understand how to play it to their team’s strengths and not to play it to sabotage the team.
The game shouldn’t remove unique playstyles just because some people don’t understand them and some abuse them in a wrong way. Stealth switches up the gameplay completely, same as Smite. I personally DISLIKE using smite myself, and I never use it in any of the builds, because it’s boring to me staying still and dealing peanuts damage, but it’s definitely unique in the way that it plays, and I enjoy playing alongside smite players who will stun all the annoying Bulwark walls for me.
To me oversmitting everything including bosses, or using Stealth to speedrun away from your team, is a user error not any different to Chorus Zealot who only uses Chorus when people are downed (the wrong way to play it), instead of buffing them up on cooldown to prevent said downs. Or Vet players sabotaging their team by ignoring gunners and choosing to fight hordes over removing Gunners and specials.
Here’s me using Stealth offensively in Havoc 40 to gain additional damage and damage reduction to kill elites (so it’s not just selfish aggro drop) and then going for the save on a teammate (who’s Kuli by the way, the creator of popular guides).
What’s exactly toxic and anti-team in playing like that?
that’s fair and not my point of contention. if you read through my post i even agreed with it already. i’m making the point that this doesn’t mean stealth is fine and doesn’t need adjustments. the potential to grief with it in itself is an issue, isn’t it? if the ability allows for user error that disrupts the flow of the game via aggro snapping or disruptive overstunning of enemies, isn’t that a fault of the ability?
i’m not suggesting for TOTAL handholding, but if you compare to totally random other mechanics like let’s say zealot charge or executioner’s stance, those cannot be disruptive in the same way even if you misuse them. i think it’s good design and should be a consideration for these abilities. giving one player too much control over enemy behavior in a 4 player co-op game can be very unfun for other people.
in the post above yours i suggested an improvement to stealth that would in my opinion not change anything for the people who use it correctly, while also not allowing it to disrupt the flow of enemy ai as blatantly
These abilities bring more to the game than they detract from it. User error should not be a limiter for design decisions. User error is always possible, no matter how you design an ability, and there will always be friction between players in a co-op game. That’s what makes in interesting, the whole process of people ADAPTING to each other’s playstyles, which makes every lobby different.
By the way, in the past, when Exe Stance was weaker, it was entirely possible your teammates could steal your kill and ruin the flow of your cooldowns, or how krak grenades took 3 seconds to explode and Crusher were often killed before they go off.
People find issues with half the stuff currently in this game. If people find issue with every other ability, weapon and playstyle that’s not just charge or exe stance, I think it’s not the game’s fault at this point, but how these people envision the game should be, which not everyone agrees with, especially the devs who put these things into the game in the first place.
But this suggestion is a fair game I guess. Would make it more interesting to use, if anything.
I love it from time to time. Depending on Lobby you can carry them easily. If they are “that bad” not even Smite will help. Even with Smite it took me ages to get certain “infamous” Penance Titles" form Auric since the Teammates were constantly dying
They are not playing with the team because they want to rush, and the they rage quit when they are downed and nobody is there to save them. There is other games that implement a mechanic similar to the one I described, and I usually get a laugh out of it.
might be a server or regional thing then, time of the zippy zealot is long gone on eu servers.
nowadays each player has roughly the same power to safely push forward if he isnt a total dropout 
exception being the scum that can get the lead briefly, trick to that is pass him when he’s occupied gobbling his engagement, if he chokes on it then so be it 
last couple hundred matches i recorded its either those lagging behind that “cant” and drop or those proficient at the game making it a race for the killfeed and we end the match <15 minutes.
but some dude going forward solo and failing is oddly enough an exception in present power levels.
another candidate would be the flame psyker that pushes too eagerly and gets floored cause no ones backing his greedy ass, most of the time they leech from the safety of the background though.
so no, i cant recall a “comedic relief” thats making an ass of himself by rushing forward, most peeps that played long enough and use a cheaper option such as scum or arbites get an almost free pass to dictate the pace.
those folk that havent learned by now and still find their way into difficulties that they aint suited for bite the dust a few rooms back while the rest struggles to get something to whack at.
They have been replaced by turbo psykers but I agree I mostly don’t see rushers much anymore
Maybe that’s also a reason I don’t see this as much of an issue as OP.
I’m willing to admit to that possibility.
Maybe @Cosmophase’s Lobbies are full of Knife-welding Stealth Rushers and mine/ours simply aren’t and that why he is pyssed and I simply laugh & shrug, when one appears in the pale moonlight and eats shAt, because Rushers die like the Biatches they are.
Extending the Hand of Friendship.
You don’t seem to understand - I could give two sh*ts about the guy who abused the ability - it’s the idea that the ability has been an issue since release and it has no use nor place in this type of game nor the lore. You can make all the excuses you want - an invisibility that causes all enemies to become stagnant spawns is a broken mechanic that is poorly thought out and executed.
Thank you for proving my point of being a glorified resser bot.
“I can pick you up no matter the situation because I become invisible while simultaneously dropping ALL aggro from EVERY enemy.” - not overpowered.
Writing a giant wall of text doesn’t make you anymore correct - I have a clear way of thinking and you have yours. I do not think invisibility belongs anywhere near this game. The same line of thinking as “scoreboard employs toxicity” could be applied to “stealth employs toxicity”. So if they don’t want a scoreboard because it causes toxicity why are they releasing playstyles that actively encourage the same thing?