State of Knight

Nothing is faster than an insta kill. No career should be balanced around the absurd level of power WHC has.

Killing Shot doesn’t work on high level Chamon Weaves last I checked for some reason sadly (unless they fixed it since I made that post). So that’s one situation in which it doesn’t shine but that’s only one weave type and not enough people play Weaves for it to matter.

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Sorry if I intrude on the speech, but we can’t talk about to balance or not a career around WHC, like he was an exception… simply because there are tons of careers that “shine” exactly like WHC.
Zealot, Merc, Shade, Bounty Hunter, Battle Wizard… they all have a very good output damage, with different advantages/disadvantages each other.

The Unending Hunt already challenges Fervency. The added survivability and crit boost uptime more than balances out the added killing power, especially in a world of A&F with its added 20% crit on heavy linesman push attacks.
BWs armor handling depends on her staff and weapon. If you gear her towards “Infantry and Monster” thats your doing. I personally just run Staggerandburntheworldflag staff.
Comparing Shade to WHC is about as genius as comparing Knight to Zealot. Calling a career with 20% constant DR squishy is also more than a stretch.

If you wanna share your educated on plenty of experience based thoughts with others, open a new discussion. Iam sure people would love to read about them. Most of them are quite worth a smile.

It is not that I disagree with you. And I also think that part why WHC overperforms is due to Saltzpyre having (together with Kerillian) the most overperforming weapons of all heroes (mainly because attack speed is slightly broken). But as you correctly said

We should remember that the thread is about Footknight. So maybe to all, we either return to that topic or rename the thread.

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To be brief, without enter too much into the off topic, I meant that WHC has pro and cons when compared with the other careers I quoted… Zealot is tougher and the damage is “less explosive but more consistent/safe”; Shade has much much much more bosses damage (sure… WHC has a good bosses damage too… but try, for example, 200% twitch: play or not Shade changes the entire run), Merc helps more your mates (but the damage is lower than WHC, Zealot, Shade… moreover Merc is not tough like Zealot… for this reason he’s not over power).

I see all of them well balanced… they cover the same category (melee dps), but everyone fulfills a unique “micro-niche”.

Anyway yep, sorry for the off topic guys, this is just to explain my idea.

The problem is that, when a pack of monks comes, you can’t know who they will aim… you can’t wait for the possibility that they attack you (in order to trigger Counter Punch), they could kill your mates… you can chain the push-bash combo, with the risk that someone gets hit (because the combo is slow and monks remain staggered for a little moment)… you can spam push, it’s more effective, but you can finish the stamina.
Then I’m not saying that the ability to stagger monks is useless… but if we add that Staggering Force is useful only vs these monks and it’s not even 100% safe… to add few new synergies between that talent and shields would not be a so bad thing.

The knack in fighting berserkers is in keeping your head cool. They are such dangerous enemies just because they need a little different strategy than most other enemies, because in melee in this game you usually need to be proactive, while vs. berserkers you need to be a little more reactive. They usually do so much damage because you try to get a cheeky hit in, but they are not impressed by that or faster than most other enemies. If you are fighting nothing but berserkers in melee, the best strategy for any character is basically just to block and wait patiently for them to gas out (or for your mates to kill them). Because usually in this game you need to go on the counter offensive fast, and most people have that learned from experience alrrady, they try to go on the counter offensive too fast vs. berserkers, which doesn’t work and you take hits. While if you fight berserkers in a mixed horde or something, the defensive stance makes you more vulnerable to other enemies that require a more proactive approach however, which makes berserkers even more dangerous. (Think the end of the fist Drachenfels map: the monks + flamers in the tight staircase is horribly dangerous: it’s easy to either take hits from the monks, or get cornered and toasted by the flamers as you try to defend yourself from the monks.)

This is the reason staggering monks is such a big deal. It works no matter if they are attacking and regardless of who they attack (non attacking monks are easier to stagger, so Staggering Force is enough even without Opportunist in that situation), and regardless of whether they come with a horde or not. If you play shieldknight, you need to position in such a way when berserkers come, that you can shove them so your mates have more space or you can get an opening to shoot a special or whatever.

Nobody said it’d be easy or 100% safe, but it at least gives you a way to deal with a very dangerous situation, that you otherwise wouldn’t have. I still feel it’s not as niche as you make it out to be. Berserkers are common and dangerous enough. It’s like calling a talent that helps you with specials “too niche” because you don’t fight specials all the time, and when you do they come in a situation that makes everything more dangerous. That’s the entire point of taking the talent…

And Staggering Force also has uses outside of shields with other weapons as well, so it’s not a niche talent itself either.

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You can’t compare monks (a single enemy) and specials (an entire catogory).

I’m not saying you are wrong, I know the correct approach and I know that the capacity of staggering them it’s not to be underestimated… but since:

  • Staggering Force isn’t 100% safe (as explained to freqlectic and as you said): monks are still risky;
  • It works with one only enemy (monks):
  • FK would need some love in general;
  • More strategies between tanks and shields would be appreciated…

I don’t see particural cons about add some new syinergies between Staggering Force and shields.

This is another speech… but, just to say, the “other weapons outside shields” often prefer Crowd Clearer over Staggering Force… but, honestly, I don’t care about this. My point, as said, is another one.