I feel like you guys accidentally entered it as 0.25 instead of 2.5, it would make A LOT more sense.
Because I know you guys designed necromancer to specifically have low dot but last twice as long. If what you believe necro has is a low dot by design cause the trade is it lasts long, then why is Blackvenom like this? Why WHC flense and DD bleed MUCH higher than blackvenom?
Steps to Reproduce (Required):
Play SoTT
Left Click Dummy.
Get ratio’d seeing you aren’t even the quater of the 2nd lowest DoTT.
Previous versions of the game had the same overtime values (and poison increases damage suffered by enemies), most of the ‘OP’ part came from the talents (Radiant Inheritance, fixed in 4.4.0.2) or bugs (Athari’s Delight in the current version).
Sorry don’t mean this in a bad way I genuinely can’t see the relation if you could open it up a bit. I’m not saying this was a nerf, I’m saying people might have failed to notice the extraordinarily low DoTT rate for all this time, may be due to the stuff you mentioned taking the spotlight the 0.25 went under the radar… or they forgot to increase the dott after they nerfed the other numbers who knows.
SoTT’s DoT is not her main source of damage (the one yoûre mentioning). This overtime is created to buff party’s damage dealt (+12% iirc). Don’t forget that she has good crit buffs and regular damage. Her strong overtime comes from talents (lingering blackvenom, stacking radiance, bleeding). If you give her 2.5 overtime damage over what she already has, it will become ridiculous. I think that this is an intended decision.
Dot values are stackable (Recursive Toxin talent) and can be increased (Athari’s Delight talent) in another row. Each stack of Blackvenom will increase damage taken by the enemy by 12% (applied from anyone in the party, not just the SoTT damage like with the Necromancer’s Malediction of Nagash). This makes her overtime more like a buff to all damage sources instead of being the sole damage source (as it was mentioned in the comment above).
Back with some testing. Yes you make sense star, however I feel like there is something wrong here if not the DoTT value because…
Recursive Toxin isn’t stacking the 12% as Vlad is suggesting, maybe it isn’t supposed to cause 24% would be a lot. However I want to imagine there would be one reason for people to want 0.25 extra DoTT on their venom which I can’t seem to find yet if you know?
12% flat dmg increase for the whole party is already very much. This dot is made for buff, not for damage, and it is not meant to deal damage to the enemies in the first place. There is literally no need to make it higher, SoTT is already strong enough. Moreover, suggesting something in a « bugs » topic is a bit weird, isn’t it ? Nothing is bugged except the bleed talent.
Édit: GK has a talent +24% power for kills (when 3 stacks). You want to hit a boss twice on sott and give +24% dmg taken to it (for all party). Absurd.
Answering your last question: the easiest way to write a code for applying a buff and not making it completely flat is small dot. That’s it IMO.
Reckon they wanted to make bleed overwrite the toxins so to prevent it being too strong like they have with Waystalker. So to allow players to choose between…
Level 25:
Ranged&Melee AoE poison, Ranged&melee single target poison
Which at level 10 you can choose to either:
With bleed, Intensify the level 25 DoTT with melee, with crits, apply DoTTs more easier.
Then it wouldn’t be too crazy, just don’t allow poison DoTTs and bleeds co-exist. Make them pick between DoTT AoE or DoTT single target with melee (bleed) But these are just ideas so…
Also, pardon me if I fungus up math here but the extra 12% isn’t as “very much” as it sounds. It’s just a slight bonus, because…
The idea sounds sexy when you think 4 players with 12% is 48% right? Now imagine every player also has 100% in them, their base damage, add 12 to each you got 112%. 4 times, 448%.
When players are hitting a single target together, you will feel their 100% more than their 12%. Because, 48, is 12%, of 400. It won’t change total impact more than 12% no matter how many players are hitting the target because each player has their own 100% damage value which will mask their 12%. Hope this makes sense or I just goofed math and look like a dumbass. I’d appreciate if you see my error if there is any before responding because I didn’t swing it out my ass but I imagine this is why nobody ever gets self conscious about: “Oh yes, elites are now dying faster when we gank them cause of SoTT.” No, they will ALWAYS die 12% faster, no matter how many players and 12% isn’t “very much”, 9 swings from everyone would equal to 1 extra swing from everyone basically and I’m sure you hit your breakpoint before everyone got to swing 9 times to get the free, non-initialized damage of 1 extra hit, you know?
We checked this and poison DoT hasn’t changed since launch, so it’s not a bug. However, this is something we may look at in future balance patches if we see common feedback.
I could do my best to rile people if im not lazy but you guys shouldn’t need a pack of people to gather up to talk about a talent that does 0.25 extra dot damage for seemingly no reason or recursive toxin is supposed to stack with blackvenom blades and it isn’t. I believe for small things like these you guys could make an internal choice and not depend on your community going out of their way. Because for small things like these, people kinda won’t since your community isn’t that big for a portion of people to make a problem out of 1 talent. It seems like something is off here so maybe it is better to take a look withour relying on me making a seperate post aboout it.
Well, since this has turned into a bit of a feedback thread, I would pile onto the sentiment that it robs SotT of a whole bunch of flavour that her DoT basically isn’t even a DoT. So there’s no way to make like a “poison” SotT build that poisons and bleeds enemies over time. Maybe it’s just a tooltip issue. The description of Blackvenom really makes it look like a damage source, so you take the 2 stacks and add on the bleed DoT expecting to become a total DoT menace like BW and then you find out your double-stacked DoT does nothing in terms of damage so the whole build makes no sense. If people don’t go out of their way to test the damage on dummies, they won’t even find out the DoT is basically nonexistent. Most new players won’t do this. They’ll buy SotT, look at her passive and think “oooh, poisoner” and build around it cause it’s an attractive playstyle. They won’t know it doesn’t work as advertised. All of the Premium careers have a lot of flavour and power built straight into their primary passive but SotT’s seems kinda like a miss. It amps damage. It’s not a real DoT though.
This very often is the case unfortunately. I see most feedbacks I give get a response regarding to: “Oh just do this instead because yes that is bad” instead of seeing it as a thing they should re-enforce the dev team to make a change over. But This was the old times I don’t know how the community is now. Forums seem chill.
Any chance blackvenom could get a little damage back? Crowd control is nice and all but it overlaps a lot with tanglegrasp. If it did enough damage to kill lower grade chaff in maybe 2 casts that would be help set it apart and be more distinct.
Nerfs were warranted but were also kinda harsh on the identity side of things, blackvenom damage removed entirely and staff took a few heavy, if indirect, hits too. She feels a bit withered (cant say watered down,plant things) and empty as far as any kind of magic goes.
Would you say she feels like she kind of relies on staff and wall too much to function? Which is great for the support aspect of the class right? But isn’t it a bit too much and her talent set kind of lack the impact for her character? Would you imagine a thorny, poisonous appeal fit her overall damage dealing more where she is somewhat of a AoE DoTT dealer on melee or such? Does she kind of relies on raw melee damage a bit too much for what she represents to be? Especially considering every other DLC class has more weight or some more specific playstyle than “bleed DoTT on melee with some crits involved but pretty much only single target” Does the whole class just feel like a glorified flense than anything if you choose not to use wall to push enemies or staff to lift? Does it feel lackluster when she could be more with her AoE hinting talents that aren’t being used?
That´s quite a loaded paragraph, short answer, yes.
The “magic elf” is very reliant on the wall and staff and doesnt really carry without those, and even with them, the main way to deal with things on her is just hitting them with a sword or such. Not very magical no.
I´d like blackvenom do a bit more damage again, then, another staff, one that is more like Sienna´s staves possibly. Maybe a variant on the corsucation staff but instead of fire geyser its a thin poison cloud that both applies the passive and a low dot. Plus a more direct LMB fire mode.
Stuff like that would enrich the experience playing her a lot i think.
…
Actually that´s probably the main thing, she only has that one staff and it doesnt feel quite so magical.
I honestly do not really see a problem here. The DoT feels like more of something to indicate that the primary effect, which is the damage taken debuff, is applied. Sienna is pretty much the only character that can output serious damage from DoT as a rule - besides, Atharti’s Delight exists, and I imagine it would get ridiculous with dual daggers and similar-damage blackvenom.
Your team will likely deal far more damage with the damage taken debuff applied than any meaningful DoT ever will, outside of bosses.