Atharti's Delight is a tiny bit BROKEN (Bleed Talent)

Ok So I’ve been doing testing all day and for anyone interested:

ATHARTI’S DELIGHT: The Bleed Talent:

  • Can Stack Bleeds up to 3 times

  • Is Empowered by Radiant Inheritance

Damage per Tick by Enemy Type:

  1. Trash Minions = 6/7 - (36/42 Total)
  2. Berzerker/Monks = 3/3.5 - (18/21 Total)
  3. StormVermin = 3/3.5 - (21/24 Total)
  • It Does an average of 6 (rarely 7) ticks of damage in an average of 4.58 Seconds - So Dps is roughly 7.86

  • It’s Roughly a 25% increase in DPS with most of kerillians weapons
    ~75% increase with 3 stacks

When placed as a proportion of of enemy health in Cataclysm it will:

  1. Eat through 25%/75% of the average trash minions health per second
  2. Eat through 5%/15% of a Cataclysm Stormvermins Health per second

NOTE: This is only with aa SINGLE DoT. Remember that you can stack them:

-All in All you can kill a Cata Stormvermin with nothing but 5-6 (Non Armour Piercing) light attacks in about 6 Seconds from the bleed alone

When considering the 2 attacks required to apply the bleed, It will generally guarantee the kill on any Cataclysm Horde Minion with a Single DoT except marauders, but Radiant Inheritance will guarantee the kill.

Here is a Video of me Taking on 10 Legend Stormvermin with nothing but my Ult and Light attacks:

(1) Sister of the Thorn Rework Atharti’s Delight Is a little Broken - YouTube

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Semantics on my part, but, does the bleed actually apply if you hit armor without piercing? I cant tell for certain but it did seem like you hit a fair number of heads during those wild swings.

Well either way i do agree that the bleed does seem a tad bit high at the present, yesterday i tested it with the talent that makes blackvenom spread around on critical melee hits. And holy crap did that just tear through even mixed hordes like nothing.

Yes it does here is a video on a stationary stormvermin. Some hits are crits but youll see that 2 nosecutive non crits trigger a bleed.

(1) Sister of the Thorn Rework Bleed Talent Cataclysm Stormvermin Vermintide 2 - YouTube

I’ve amended some of the numbers I forgot to take into account my power vs skaven and armour properties. The original argument still stands. It’s still a little busted:

Storm vermin damage is in fact 3 not 3.5 (same as berzerkers) although I would recommend running power vs skaven and armour as it helps with more useful breakpoints.

I could be wrong but it doesnt seem like the dagger swipe did any damage, and the sword stab attack definitely has armor pen on it. ’

Can you do a Cata one?

On Legend those SV would have been dead from 4 different 1 shot bodyshot ranged breakpoints.

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Seems like the point of the video is that they’re not using armor piercing attacks, or going for headshots, at all. It’s a demonstration of how silly self buffing bleed damage on hit is. The fact that it’s on Legend instead of Cata seems moot; on Cata it would just take longer to account for the higher HP.

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It’s not moot at all. Higher health pools mean that a Passive can be more balanced on that difficulty. ‘Silly’ isn’t an argument, whether or not it’s balanced is.

Elf can already use high armour piercing attacks that can delete Elites in 1-2 goes.

Spamming Lights on higher health enemies that will die slower doesn’t seem too strong. I’ve been playing it, and it barely does anything to Chaos Warriors or Bosses, and barely anything to SV, especially in mixed Hordes. If I’m hitting Hordes, the damage is slower and lower than before the patch.

My argument of Legend being able to kill those SV from 50ft away with one shot body shots pretty much sums it up. If you’re going to point out something that’s OP on Legend, you could start with ranged breakpoints on 90% of the Ranged Weapons. Or even the one hit breakpoints available to every Kerillian Career in melee.

Shade can probably do even more damage if you go for heads with Exquisite Huntress on Legend too. You’re more than capable of killing Elites with Light headshots on Cata with it.

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The video shows a player using sword and dagger light bodyshots, attacks that do not do any damage to armor, to kill armor. That is the entire point.

We’ve already seen that this sort of mindless, passive dot spam is OP. It does not need to be proven once again. Both Flense and dual dagger’s bleed effect got nerfed because of the degenerate, unskillful play they promoted. And Flense has still been routinely called out as too strong even post-nerf. Fire sword has also constantly been called out for its hilariously effective and one-dimensional play style.

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Yeah I dunno @Kitten I was playing around with dual swords on Cata modded (for creature spawner) and it was killing SV disgustingly fast just spamming heavy attacks at them. I don’t remember dual swords of all things dismantling armour that quickly in any other situation (besides Shade’s insta kills obviously).

It isn’t though.

" Atharti’s Delight is a tiny bit BROKEN (Bleed Talent)"

If it was ‘BROKEN’ in terms of being a bug, this would be a bug report.

The only other definition could be balance-wise, which is further expanded on by the addition of damage number, description of killing speed, and video.

If the point was it’s ‘silly’, this post would be statements of opinion on aesthetic and realism.

I thought the argument was that it was silly? Why are you talking about balance around DoTs all of a sudden, and just happen to be against them? :thinking:

  1. With Legend breakpoints you can kill SV by looking at them
  2. OP admitted to using Power vs SV
  3. The test is misrepresentative of actual gameplay

I just want to see a video. Is it faster than spamming Heavys with SnD, DD or Glaive with the same Stats?

I’ve been playing it all day with weapons other than SnD, and it doesn’t seem that strong at all. Not even close to how it was with the execute mechanic.

I’m just skeptical of people running a build specifically to increase their damage against one enemy type, making a video which is misrepresentative of actual gameplay, on a difficulty where you can look at SV and they die, and then claiming it’s OP.

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Always love to see the intentionally obtuse and pedantic look. It’s so in right now.

The nonsense Bongo posted isnt only working on Legend. It works on Cata(, and even Cata 3). Just use Dual Swords and left click away. This is the kind of nonsense, left click spam to victory, that shouldn’t be a thing.

The cost of running Delight is also slim. Malice is only useful if you are intending to run a Hunter+Concotion setup to tear monsters apart. Delight is the better choice for general mixed wave clear, and also stacks up quite nicely on monsters.

Dont worry about Kitten. You will have to learn to enjoy Elf mains screaming every time you point out something isnt quite right. Its evidently in their nature.

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My gosh @BongoSkaggs @Radina.Shevu aren’t you both being needlessly d!ckish here?

I’ve always found @Kitten perfectly reasonable and productive to talk to on these forums. They were calling for hagstalker nerfs from way back so I don’t think this is a case of “Elf bias”. It’s not horribly unreasonable to say their experience differs and would like to see a video of a build overperforming at top difficulty. A little pedantic yes, but nothing worth being so unpleasant over.

I mean I’m talking about Dual Swords, a weapon that supposedly trades armour damage for armour sliding, huge cleave, and speed. I’d be pretty concerned to see if offing armour at the same rate as any of the weapons you listed. To be clear though I haven’t played around with it enough to know exactly how it performs in a real game, I just spent half an hour playing around in the keep with creature spawner and was surprised by how fast dual swords was offing SV with this setup.

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I will make a video of me vs 10 Cata Stormvermin.

Though I know for a fact (and already have a video on my channel) That a single Cata stormvermin dies in about 5 or 6 seconds.

The others here are correct the point is that it promotes unskillfull mindless slaughter of Armoured enemies with non AP damage.

At best this ability represents an increase in DPS of about 75% with the greatest application here being mixed hordes of course and stormvermin patrols become trivial WITHOUT the use of any potions or bombs just block, push and let your sister slaughter them.

Also Broken doesn’t just mean a BUG. It can also mean too powerful by design or too powerfull as a result of lack of testing it. In this regard a lack of testing it around armour, or maybe they didnt care. Im just reporting on this stuff and I suspect either the stacking or damage will be nerfed.

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It’s fine. He really should be charging me, I don’t know why he would let me live rent free in his head like that.

Will have to see. Dual Wield offering 2 stacks of everything in the game doesn’t help. I was actually going to make a post about that.

It’s already confirmed that initial attacks are benefitting from Blackvenom. Now we can find out if bleed on armour is intentional too.

I mean you can, but it’s still a misrepresentation of actual gameplay, if you’re using it to forward your argument that it’s OP.

Probably, but I’m questioning whether or not it’s OP. A Legend video with Skaven/Armour stats doesn’t clear anything up.

@ArrynChaos

I was about to say. I’m the only person showing any opposition, and that’s only to the evidence provided.

People are actually reporting rather than engaging with the arguments.

Except that´s not quite what happens in practice though.

What happens is that the stormvermin die from critical hits +/ headshots+armor piercing hits very quickly due to the venom+bleed applying off any hit.

Which is not not intended if the talent descriptions are right.

The intended effect is that first hit that goes through armor applies venom, then the second hit with the same conditions apply the bleed. A bleed which OP states is too high, which i do agree it seems to be.

Bugfixes and tweaks are needed.

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Oke why is the OP flagged? Seriously I would expect this sort of crap on reddit but not here …

Anyways my 2 cents, this can almost directly be compared to flense and when flense is considered to be little bit braindead of a talent then this should automatically get the same type of attention. Semantics aside, I personally don’t believe armored enemies should die to just light spams without hitting the head or critting.
(light armor piercing attacks aside)

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Wait my post has been flagged? For what?

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