Ahh yeah, I was thinking you might be refering to Psyker (among the others). And yeah, I feel with the veteran’s one the main thing they where trying to balance around is the fact that unlike with Warp Siphon (and Disrupt Destiny now…for some reason), you can stack the effects infinitely on top of one another.
So when a Psyker walks into a crowd and kills 5 of the 10 gunners that spawned, they walk out with 6% toughness regen over the next 5 seconds (and a possible 37.5% toughness if a warp kills with one more talent point spent).
When a Veteran kills the other 5 gunners, they walk out with 50% extra toughness (assuming they needed it), and 10% toughness regen for 10 seconds.
It’s hard to say which approach is better, with Veteran being the one that’s ‘supposed’ to be killing these enemies, it makes sense his is weaker to start but ramps based on the number of enemies killed. But it does also still feel kinda cheeks that he has to ‘work for it’ while others get it for simply breathing and playing the way they want to.
I say Catch a Breath does help in that regard a good bit, but it is also one of the only things they got that isn’t insanely restrictive, or Out for Blood (which only matters if you get all the kills AFTER taking a lot of damage). I do think it would be nice if there was one other talent given to vets that helped round out there options that’s a bit more passive/in the background like the rest of the classes have access to as you described (perhaps maybe X% toughness replenished every reload, based on the amount of bullets reloaded into the mag? Just as a spit ball).
thing is we are looking at a situation where vet has gone from 200 base toughness and +50% for each special killed to 115 - 140 base and +30% each special killed (in 10 seconds)
if you get toughness broken by anything and you have to rely on ol’special kills to get it back you need to kill 8 specials or elites just to get back in iron will territory (while everything is shooting at you in slow mo)
my other issue with new confirmed kill, is that 20% tougness regen in 10 seconds is excruciatingly slow to build up to the point it makes it ineffective as a toughness regen strategy unless you are over iron will’s treshold of course, that is why to me 30% in 5 seconds is such a better deal even if it doesn’t stack
even without peril generation and quell toughness talents you can see your bar filling up quickly
Yeah, I feel that’s probably why Catch a Breath being functional now feels as good as it does, for whatever reasons ‘5% regen a second’ just feels like the base line that feels good atm, and having it + a Confirmed Kill or two going means you can see you’re toughness rocketing upward, which always feels nice.
Psykers get that for taking Essence Harvest for 5s, or even get that for Disrupt Destiny now with 10% per second for 2.5s, on top of always having a ‘toughness bank’ with their peril (assuming they take Quietude) for 5% per 10% peril quelled there too in a pinch, all to help make up for their lack of DR. Zealots don’t get any real regen but are under Iron Will for their entire toughness bar most of the time (thank you Enduring Faith very cool) so their incidental forms of instant toughness + being a melee class keeps them from ever feeling like they are falling off. And Ogryn now gets 5% per melee hit at base that can go up to 15% with a heavy, or can hold their gun for 12.5% regen when needed (which again, feels VERY good), while also still having a very hefty amount of DR to make all that toughness matter too.
But Veteran is this sort of hybrid character that has DR, but only sometimes, has regen, but only sometimes, and has burst toughness (in the way of Out for Blood or the none E-stance CA’s), but only sometimes. He functions under this nebulous cloud of ‘I’m sometimes incredible but other times weeping uncontrollably’, which the other classes now just don’t really have that issue. I feel having any consistent source of on demand toughness one can control more readily outside of kill based ones (like Zealots on Dodge, Ogryns on Hit, and Psykers breathing), would do wonders here, just a matter of again, finding the right flavor for a veteran that’s unique to him…(I wonder if it would be OP to shift Catch a Breath to ‘active while holding a full magazine’…or if that would even be better rubs chin).
Either way, I could see them giving confirmed kill 30% over 10s. Having to only kill 2 specials/elites for the ‘good feeling level of regen’ instead of three would be quite helpful, and I think also elevate this a good bit too. I’m just not sure about going back to 50% unless they decide to make it a refreshable talent instead of a stacking one, as killing 2 gunners and then having a psyker bubble on you for 10s that only grows in strength seems rather nutz.
Ogryn also has a toughness while braced, veteran would love that while ADS ,on tagging or on reload gain toughness but there are many sources of toughness in abilities and keystones as well.
God I really hate being mean but everytime I come onto one of these it reads like someone saw the last patch’s ogryn/psyker changes and thought everything should out powercreep their level of broken without adding anything that’d increase the build diversity
Like ex stance getting ogryn’s steady grip!?! Replacing smokes with Bouncing Betties?!? A “berserk” ult, with stats that read like it’s ripped straight from scriers gaze!?!
C o m e. o n.
The only reasonable change is the increase of krak grenades but that wouldn’t address the fact it takes forever to deploy leading to most weapons killing the enimies it’s designed for faster (and even if it was made quicker the dueling sword would still arguably be faster)
At this point I really should write my own because it’s becoming increasingly clear most of you don’t know how to balance the game and want to play as a space marine and wouldn’t last 10 seconds in any of fs other games let alone other horde shooters that lore wise would be far more surivable