been leveling up ogryn recently and i decided to test out how the keystones work and i must say. I’m a little disappointed at how useless some of them feel in the overall grand scheme of things
Heavy Hitter +5% heavy damage on heavy hit, stacks 5 times. cool nothing wrong with that, you can stack it pretty quick
just getting started +10% melee speed increase on the surface this seems good, but unless this shortens the heavy attack wind up speed. animation speed or otherwise, it’s kind of useless
i had a hard time testing this with a heavy attack build i could barely notice a difference while heavy attacking. the difference is obvious when using light attacks
Unstoppable +10% toughness on kill again this sounds decent at first glance but, it really really, really sucks, by default you get 5% of your toughness back on a kill, now if this perk worked “additively” it would be amazing, going from 5% toughness to 15% toughness per kill, would be good, however this perk is working multiplicative meaning 5% toughness + 10% more 10% of 5% is 0.5, based on my testing this gets rounded up to 1
if you have 100 toughness, on kill you normally get 5 toughness, with this perk you get a whopping, 6 toughness, that’s right, this perk gives you 1 more toughness per kill
now, considering the fact that that I’m already getting 25% of my toughness back per heavy attack i really really don’t feel like spending a skill point here to get this keystone? because i don’t care about the 1 extra toughness per kill
brutish momentum light attacks refresh the ability? yeah ok i get it, the keystone is designed for you to stack up with 5 heavy attacks, then get a small amount of attack speed and start attacking faster “basically” this keystone is designed to make you play like trash, since light attacking with ogryn looses you clears throat
25% toughness regen per hit (50% if your below 25% health)
makes all of your heavy damage perks useless,
makes your unstoppable perk useless
loosing damage reduction while charging attacks
less bleed stacks on the enemy which in turn reduced your damage reduction you get (up to 60% DR based on number of bleeding enemies)
now. might i ask you once more, if I’m running a heavy attack build since “that is the only build you have offered me for melee” why would i take anything more then heavy hitter? and why would i want to go further into this keystone? heavy attacks along already refresh the perk, so i don’t even need to light attack to “keep my perk active”
now before i go any further i need to explain something about toughness regeneration %
not all toughness regeneration % are equal, some perks buff toughness regen from all sources, some only effect coherency regeneration, some only effect kills, and some only effect specific perks
with this in mind, we kind of need to test “what perks effect what types of regen”
coherency regen is probably the worst perk possible, since it is not active in combat. you know, when you want to have your toughness, it can help if you find a brief moment in-between combat to “not get hit” but as you go up in difficulty, more and more enemies will give you less and less opportunity to take advantage of coherency regeneration, since their is a delay between exiting combat and coherency regeneration activating, infect you don’t even need to be getting hit, for the regen buff to cancel, something as simple as “an enemy is targeting you” will be enough to stop the regren buff, for this reason, coherency regen sucks, and does pretty much nothing to help you stay alive 98% of the time,
toughness on kill is slightly better since you can get it in combat, but by default it it 5% for ogryn, and buffs that increase this value don’t stack adaptively, they stack multiplicatively, meaning 5% + 10% does not equal 15% it equals 5.5% a 25% buff on kill = 6.25% and a 50% buff on kill = 7.5%
needless to say it but, might i remind you that, attacking with a heavy attack gives you 25% toughness regen, 7.5% per kill, means A you need to get the kill. so it is useless against bigger enemies, and B it is a MUCH MUCH smaller buff when considering, you need to spend skill points, to get SUCH a small increase on an already BAD toughness regen mechanic,
toughness from perks, these are god tier, “do a thing” “get toughness” hit enemy with heavy attack? get toughenss? simple, you can get it in combat, when you need it, and oh boy, you get it from attacking enemies, wow, perfect 10/10
keep all this in mind it will be important soon
feel no pain 2.5% DR and regen per stack, stacks 10 times
this perk starts at 10 stacks, meaning you start with 25% DR and 25% toughness regen
the regen is ONLY FOR COHERENCY, as far as i can tell, it is the worst type of regen possible, it wont effect kills OR your perks
this is basically useless, and this ends up basically being nothing BUT 25% DR which, to be fair 25% DR on toughness is not horrible, but you do also loose it when you get hit, slowly, and it takes a while to gian the stacks back
keep in mind that, taking an extra 25 toughness from a perk. or taking other perks that give you DR would essentially do the same thing? but you wont be loosing the DR when your being hit randomly
(looking at you +10% toughness DR node and + 15% general DR node while charging an attack much better perks imo since the +15% also effects health DR)
Pained Outburst 25% of your toughness gets regenerated when you looser all your stacks, 30 second cooldown, know what else gives 25% toughness? hitting anything with a heavy attack, know how many times i can do a heavy attack in 30 seconds? allot, allot allot
remove the 30 second cooldown from this perk, and then i will consider it, but honestly if you quite literally, have nothing else to spend your perks on, feel no pain and pained outburst, technically do things, they just do the least possible for you staying alive, they barely do anything at all compared to other options in the the ogryns tree
strongest this is a perk that makes feel no pain less bad, but also, you have to push enemies back, instead of attacking them with your heavy attack, which would be giving you toughness regen, so you choose do you want 25% of your toughness regenerated? while also staggering a whole group of enemies? while also dealing damage? OORR do you want to push the enemies, stagger them, and get a single stack for a trash perk and deal no damage? your choice? choose wisely
now, if pained outburst has no cooldown, and you could get the 25% toughens as soon as you loose all your stacks, now that is cool, you would then, loose all you stacks (which will happen anyway over time) then, you get 25% toughness, then you can push an emery, gain 1 stack, get hit again, loose the stack, and gain back another 25% toughness, this actually makes sense and improves/ changes your gameplay in a significant way
unfortunately, this has NO synergy whatsoever unless your? idk playing shield ogryn? and your goal is to simply taunt, and then sit with your shield to be immune to all damage anyway? f me, if I’m immune to damage why do i care about regenerating toughness, see the problem here? the perk makes no sense, in 90% of the situatoins that exist
toughest wow good job, you have achieves 50% coherency toughness regen? or something?
honestly if this perk effected more, i would be impressed and interested, as far as i can tell it doesn’t even effect toughness on kill replenishment, and even if it did effect toughness on kill replenishment, it still would not be that impressive at all in any way, because of how good smash em, the best defense and, too stubborn to die are, which btw, all work with each other, too stubborn to die, will double the toughness you gain from the other 2 perks, god tier, goad perk, big toughness, 2 heavy attacks = full toughens, very good much ogryn strong never die
now finally, haha finally, i actually have 0 bad things to say about gun ogryns keystones, they are honestly solid, good
5% lucky shot which can be upgrades to 8% essentially becomes 5-8% less ammo consumption. 5-8% crit change and 5-8% chance to reduce a small amount of your cooldown, maximum firepower it a big misleading but from what i can gather
your cooldown goes faster by 200% (which should be 3x faster) for 2 seconds meaning you shave off about 4 seconds every lucky shot? roughly? idk this is worded really weirdly, the weird part is that, the length of your ability duration doesn’t actually effect this calculation in any way
so this perk is just “4 seconds off your ability cooldown for each lucky shot”
fats hark, please reword this ability to make more sense to people, or clarify how it works, because the way you are wording it makes no sense, or you are intending it to work in a way which it is not? or something? idk
either way, gun ogryns keystones are solid good buffs all around. i would take all of them
PS ogryns auras such trash as well, sure the 10% aura helps you and other organs so it’s probably the best choice, since it buffs you and other ogryns, and anyone who randomly uses a heavy attack, but is a neich aura, that only works for heavy attacks. kind of bad
stay close 20% coherency regeneration, this only effects coherency regen, nothing else, so it’s kind of trash crowd culling, is actually a decent aura, that will effect any type of gun play, but the enemies need to be suppressed. so it is kind of trash but slightly better since, people do shoot in this game, especially veterans, well, the idea of wheat a veteran should be anyway
i would ignore ogryns auras, and just try to get the perks above and below to make it easier to get ot the, stuff that is actually good
their are other bad perks in the ogryns tree as well that i would never recommend such as crunch
crunch forces you to hold your heavy attack for as long as possible before releasing, for a small damage increase and some impoact
you basically have the options (do i heavy attack twice, get twice as much toughness, and deal twice as much damage) OR do you heavy attack once, deal 40% more damage on the single attack (60% less DPS) get 40% more impact, but then also, get half as much toughness from your other perks
personally, i will not use this perk because it forces me to play in a really stupid way just to activate this perk, i want more toughness not less
or hard knockback this perk resets on your next heavy attack, i guess it works for turtle build where, you just, plant shield into the ground, taunt stuff, knock them back, and attack randomly?? idk shield build is weird, you basically just turtle, be attacked, and let your team do the work, it’s like CC but you become completely useless as a player and deal no damage, if you want damage, just take batter, the heavy damage buff, and the heavy damage aura, now you have 20% permanently all the time?? and it wont reset on your next attack
point being, organ’s tree feels unbalanced, and it kind of funnels people into very specific ways of playing, if you want to make the most out of the tree because of HOW BAD half the perks are, so you just avoid tf out of them, and if you do use these perks, your now making yourself weaker, if you use the perks properly, because of how bad the perks are designed, no synergy, no coherency, i don’t like that. i want more variety then just “weird melee ogryn” and “gun ogryn” and stupid, “face tank ogryn” hybrid build that makes basiclaly no sense (hell give me the thorns perk, so i can deal damage while i sit here being useless and taunting enemies at least or something idk)
ogryns tree feels like it needs, maybe not so much a structure rework, but defiantly some perk changes for sure, 100% needs some perk changes, needs some tender love and attention
