It’s been a couple weeks now, we’ve all had a chance to try and digest the veteran skill tree. We’ve all gotten indigestion. We’ve all read the many (many) posts on what the problems are, some have tried to suggest a wide array of changes that would help the poor, hungry veteran:
To summarize the one, greatest point brought up in all the threads, and completely disregard any issues people have with synergies, keystone mechanics, and so on: The skill tree is too damned long. The reason people came back to play the game is because they could suddenly do new and interesting things with their characters, and the vet rework walked much of that right back.
Balance aside, you can be shooty (left tree). You can now shout at people as effectively a new class ( middle tree), but you can’t mix and match the skill trees in any interesting ways given the point deficit veteran is at.
So really, when is someone gonna fix this?
Vet has some similar issues to what Ogryn, and to a lesser extent psyker, have with their skill trees where there’s really only the left, middle, and right trees independently, without any major synergy between them – but at least for those you have enough points to play around a little with the talents you take. Veteran is left with their exclusive trees and no room for anything else if you want to take the keystones (which make up somewhat for the nerfs they received in the other parts of their trees)
So fatshark, though nobody has responded (afaict) to the many, numerous threads on people complaining about Vet’s (now) many, numerous problems – is someone working on fixing them at all, or are we just going to walk back to where we were before the big skill tree patch, where once you’ve played the one (now two) builds at your disposal, the game is just monotonous?
Did you not link the most popular posts (one and two, both of which have ~10x the discussion of the threads you posted) on the topic because they don’t fit your narrative that “everyone” has problems with the new tree (other than the universally-agreed upon length/point flexibility issue)?
Now that the knee-jerk reaction to the trees has settled down, many people (surely not all) agree that the keystones are strong and the tree just needs more interconnectivity/flexibility/tweaking.
Can you point me to someone who doesn’t agree with any of what OP said? Even the threads linked apart from the last one are pretty generally agreed-upon points.
Everyone has a problem with the new tree, find me a soul that doesn’t think Vet has a lot of problems. The fact that a very vocal group wants to push to fix it by cutting Vet tree by 2 points doesn’t mean they don’t have a problem with it.
I dare you to find me a person who thinks Vet isn’t the weakest class now.
Everyone has a problem with the new tree. The situation isn’t that there are big threads going on on how incredibly good, interesting, and game-changing the new keystones and the tree rework is.
I’d like everyone to stop throwing around the word “rework”. The tree needs some snipping, maybe a little rearranging, and some extra connections. FS feeling like they had to “rework” the tree is half of what got a lot of the better parts of the previous version needlessly scrambled when it was perfectly salvageable with some precise tweaks and the addition of keystones.
Veterant doesn’t need a rework and is quite efficient now. Just not that satisfying to build with. Simply cutting a nod on each branch and adding a junction point before the end would be more than enought.
You wouldn’t even need 9 in a row - you l could do 1 → 3 → 1 → 2 on the left, 3 → 1 → 2 → 1 in the middle and 2 → 1 → 3 → 1 on tree right for example.
I think squishing the tree by at least 1 (ideally 2) would be a good start. 2 points would bring parity with other classes, but I’m not sure exactly how you would effectively get the second row removed.
I reject the use of the term “knee-jerk” in this case, as it implies a lack of merit to the argument, rather than merely a differing opinion. Moreover, the update has been live for over a week now, so we’ve now likely exceeded the knee-jerk reaction period. Conceivably, everyone has had time to test out the update and yet these threads still persist. So let’s maybe not throw stones and decry others as pushing a “narrative”, just because we don’t personally agree with what’s being said, yeah?
@Badwin, you’re clearly a fan of the new keystones, and more power to you for it. Speaking for myself, I’m hard-pressed to think of a more vocal proponent of them, just based anecdotally on how often I see you singing their praises. Again, more power to you. I sincerely wish I felt the same. I don’t. I imagine it’s not a stretch to say that more than a few others are likewise dissatisfied. Those of us who are expressing displeasure with the current system would likewise like to be able to enjoy the class again, but are unable to do so in it’s current state. I don’t understand why you seem to take issue with this. I don’t think improvements being made which un-hobble the veteran tree are mutually exclusive to your enjoying the of the game.
i just want(ed) sustained fire back. that’s literally all i cared about for the vet’s rework. it was the most fun and most satisfying vet gameplay so far, and them removing it made the vet go from one of my favourite classes, to my least facvourite. i actually hate the vet now lol
every other class was improved and made objectively better in every way possible, with the vet being the only class that was made objectively worse in every way possible. and it’s not just that one aspect is bad. it’s really the entire thing. there’s virtually no combination of nodes you can pick that has a satisfying gameplay loop, or that feels, “complete”, especially when compared to all the other classes. like, highlighting enemies is what’s hot in the streets? that’s what we got? highlighting?
i’m not saying this should be a thing at all, but if highlighted enemies exploded when you killed them, that would be a fun gimmick to play around with. it would at least be something. the shout is useful, but the zealot’s relic is better in every way. the stealth is neat, but, again, the zealot does it much, much better. let’s not even talk about the ghetto-ass smoke grenade, either. the vet’s entire skill tree is basically set up that you can play it, but other classes are just more fun in every way.
i swear, every time i think i wanna play the vet, and that i’ve somehow over-looked some hidden gameplay mechanic/style/gimmick, i realize half-way through a mission that i don’t even wanna play the game anymore; it’s that bad. it’s not just, “i should have played the ogryn/zealot/psyker”, it’s, “i should have played another game entirely”.
that 90’s cartoon xmen meme, with wolverine sadly looking at that photo of jean grey; sustained fire is my jean grey photo.
Reload-on-ult was what got me into veteran in the first place. The fact that we don’t have that ability in post-talent tree world is a travesty, especially given the rest of the power creep that now saturates the game. I play all of the classes to do my weekly contracts and veteran is by far the weakest right now.
Do you think new keystones are game-changers that are incredibly well-liked? I don’t mean “it’s useful, it has an impact!”, something that is widely liked or enables something new. You can now run a B-tier bolter build with Tag and can abuse MF with AIGs, + I have a pretty fun build that is toxic as F that I’m not sharing, but that’s that.
I don’t care, i don’t rate my builds or weapons, i don’t rate classes, i only care what is fun and works. I can make any keystone, class and every weapon type work, and have fun with it.
If people don’t like it fine. If people suggest changes, fine.
Are those changes good? Or is there a global problem that requires solution? Or is it someone’s personal one, that they want to pass off as global? that is up for debate.
It doesn’t matter to me how much people talk about subject. The only thing that matters is what make sense, and what not.