I Fixed Veterans Skill Tree

first problem with vets skill tree. takes too many damn perk points just to get to the bottom 22- 23 perk points is way too many, this can been fixed by making allot of the perk (3 choice) perks with small nodes in-between
this condenses the skill tree quite a bit, and lets you branch out little bit more, if you want to
since veterans skill tree is so, one directional in many places. you need to have more condensed options to give players a choice rather then just, straight up locking them into “THIS EXACT BUILD”

second issues with veterans skill tree, sometimes you force the player to take really stupid skills in order to continue on going down the tree
here’s an example
now tell me, why do i want more ammo if my crit hits cost no ammo?
this should be player choice “do you want more ammo, do you need more ammo?”
rather then just “your getting more ammo if you need it or not”

so here are the changes, some small nodes have bean removed or moved elsewhere, sometimes to places that make it easy to get to for both trees that had a duplicate node
some perks have been moved around, or even up the tree and sometimes to different branches because, they made no sense where they were to begin with, and just made the tree un nessacerily long
i don’t claim that all of the perks are in the best location possible, but this tree layout itself would be SO MUCH BETTER and would be more in line with most other characters
with this layout we need 18-19 perks going straight down to get to the bottom of the tree
here you can see the list of small node perks, the old tree, and my proposed changes


Might be busted, but this is definitely the best version of “How about this” I’ve seen so far. Only thing I don’t like is TA being placed at ExaStance.


yeah unfortunately their was no room in the middle for it, that was the one thing i had to move around
but consider this, what is stopping you from going over and picking it up? the nodes along the way are 25 toughness and 5% reload speed, cant complain with either of them even if your going down the right side of the tree
the only other option would be swapping twinned blast with TA to get TA into the middle, it would however split up the grenades perks even more then they already are, but considering grenade build goes downs the middle of the tree, it would be less of an issue, either way it would be a single talent point of difference, and the new layout more then makes up for the downsides

like i mentioned, specific perk placement might not be the best
but the layout itself, is very good
veteran might become very strong with this tree, but the way to fix that would then be, nerfing perks slightly, rather then changing the tree. the tree needs a good layout to begin with, then you balance the character afterwards

TA is also not really a support focused ability, although i could see allot of different builds wanting to pick up TA because, who doesn’t like ability cooldown with an easy enough perk to activate

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You are definitely right about that.

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a friend recently sent me one of their veteran builds, and i was curious to see how it would look like on the tree layout that i am suggesting and I’m pretty happy with it
you can get the exact same perks with the exact same amount of points, but the perks are just in different places, so in terms of how strong the build it. it should be pretty much the same as it was before

this was kind of what i was trying to aim to do, you can see on the new tree, their are allot of times where, the player is taking multiple perks in a single line, this would let the player have more options to “not take a perk” and instead go further down the tree

I think some extra horizontal connections towards the bottom of the tree would really help make it as versatile as Fatshark said it would be.

yeah. it probably would help, but it would also not fit very well into the style of tree fatshark is goin for, each tree has a unique design, and follows a somewhat simple set of consistent rules over the entire tree
they actually broke the veterans rules up top when they added the single node that goes to all 3 grenades, realistically with the new design that could be changed back to how it was before since the tree is more efficient getting to the bottom (this design would only require 17-18 perks going straight down Much more efficient then the other classes, spending extra points to go from one side of the tree to the other would not be the worst in this case

the efficiency of this tree would also let you go down all three bottom paths if you desire, negating the need for more links in-between

adding links here would let you avoid, 1 small node and 1 perk but at this point the tree is way too efficient for player choice, i would probably move the ability modifiers around to make it look more like the rest of the tree structure

either way, whatever happens and where things get moved to, i feel like the core concept of having 3 choices being split up by smaller nodes is the way to go

the biggest problem here now is that you only need 17 perks to reach the bottom if you go directly down any path which may not be a problem? honestly the veteran has so many skills spread all over the place, that people will want to branch out anyway
and at the end of the day. you can still only have 30 skill points to spend

take a look at a lasgun crit build for example
here are all the perks on the tree that can help you with a lasgun crit build
they are so spread out all over the place it is not funny, theirs, stamina, crit, ammo consumption, reload speed all help with the the lasgun setup, but with how far spread apart is it, quite literally impossible to get to all the nodes because you have to go through so much junk that, does absolutely nothing for what your trying to achieve

even as it is, these builds don’t look too different from each other with the old and new tree since stuff is still all over the place, but the player now has more choices for avoiding certain perks, or for example, taking a weaker grenade in order to save on perk points up top, to spend more perk points down below

I often find that different weapons have different “needs”, and end up spanning between the three pathes in Veteran’s skill tree, so I don’t mind the way they changed it. I’d actually prefer if all the tiers were like that.

if we were to convert the veteran skill tree to have localized nodes, it’s actually a benefit and a curse at the same time, it would need to be done better if it was all over the tree
the biggest problem with it is that, your forced to take 2 nodes to get from above to below, but you can go anywhere
without the local middle nodes, you only need to spend 1 skill point to get lower down the tree
it’s a problem i have been pondering on for a while, trying to come up with a solution for it

on one hand it is kind of cool, and on the other hand. it is forcing the player to take 2 small nodes, when they might literally just want to go straight down the middle tree, or straight down the left tree etc.
going straight down is more efficient on skill points since you take less nodes, which lets you branch out more at the bottom of the tree or wherever in the tree you decide to branch out at

sometimes it does not even make the pathing more efficient at all

and at best it is saving you one skill point
i think my biggest problem is the fast that it is only at the grenades, half the time I’m just taking the krak grenades anyway because they are amazing at taking down crushers
maybe if this was, spread through the tree more often, it could make getting from one side of the tree to the other easier

i will see what i can come up with, for a design that tries to do something like this, letting the player go back and fourth on the tree more easily

I like your brain, Quantum.

I can see you put a heck of a lot of thought into this, respect to you for that. And I think as a compromise to tweak the tree but keep the concept Fatshark had, this is pretty damn good.

Personally, I’d prefer Veteran to be more flexible in his build paths, as that has the highest number of potential builds. Builds are what allow people to multiply their enjoyment of a class (if they are that kind of person obviously).

However, that aside I don’t want to detract from what you’ve done here, I think its solid.


this actually may be the perfect solution to the vet problem
i was worried it might take too may points to get to the bottom of the tree, but if it is laied out exactly this way, it only takes 20 points to get to the bottom
the biggest benefit is that, it only takes 20 skill points EVER to get to the bottom, (apart for the right side keystone because theirs an extra node their but who cares haha
with this design you can take, any grenade, ability, aura together and nonmatter what route you take. if you go down any path it will take 20- 21 points to each the bottom, leaving the player with 9-10 points left over to branch out and take perks elsewhere in the tree, this falls very much in line with any other character in the game, and for that reason i like it quite allot

(side note, i know their are too many perks here in total, but fat shark will figure that out I’m sure XD)

my biggest concern is that, this is something fat shark may never add to the game because it gives the player ALLOT of options
however, i don’t really see many solutions for veteran other then giving players more options to get down the tree
they have allot more perks then every other character in the game and that is, a blessing and a curse


thanks yes that was the goal i set out with, don’t change what fatshark has in place too much, just move things around to make more sense, either way i don’t really care what design fatshark ends up going with, as long as these concepts give fatshark “the right idea” in terms of what are the issues with the vets skill tree, they might be able to take those concepts combined them together in the way the want want and make something really good with it
i would hope that they would go through the forums and take a look at all the ideas because their are allot of people here that have some really good suggestions for the tree

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I just want to say, especially since your latest posted concept takes these kind of junctions to the extreme, that the forced stat node that you have to pass through shouldnt really be a problem if they are all ‘+toughness’ and ‘+damage reduction’ survivability nodes since most builds would want to take them anyway for increased survivability.

Ive experimented with a middle ground where you reduce the lateral nodes by one without adding an extra vertical nexus node while also avoiding nodes with more than downward connections, I think youve read the thread I shared it in.

Its not really compatible where youve got those 3 skill spreads but by giving you an extra row to work with it might give you more space to arrange things less densely, if nothing else I quite like the idea as an improvement on the current skill tree.


Considering just about everyone seems to agree the current structure of the skill tree is too restrictive, its nice to see a thread focused discussion and analysis on constructive suggestions for improvements.


yes this is an interesting concept but yeah, unfortunately it wouldn’t work with my layout
we must also consider that, removing too many small nodes would make the veteran overpowered compared to the other classes, since the don’t need to take as many small nodes just to get to the perk you want
having something that is unrestrictive can be a bad thing for game balance as well, which is why i have tried to include as many small nodes as possible, while not going overboard with them, or removing a ton of them outright, and allot of small nodes have some really unique perks like - 0.25 stamina recharge delay

Yeah, my solution to this has been playing around with redistributing the removed lateral nodes at the top of the tree to support more lateral connections towards the bottom where it currently forces you into specific keystone/ ability modifier combinations.

The idea being that they can still keep the intended design of specific branches towards the bottom with exclusive perks, but they aren’t so deep and extensive with no lateral connections that it leaves you feeling forced into specific selections to get to the keystone you want.

It’s…It’s beautiful


I actually hadn’t considered that, neat!

don’t forget to unlock the ogryn highlight talent for executioner stance. Before the rework, it gave bonus damage to ogryns and monsters at the expense of shooters, but it doesn’t now, so it’s totally unnecessary to lock one out from the other considering it takes up a valuable talent point.