Title.
Is it seriously so that bugfixes and balancing is postponed due to the leaderboards getting “mixed results” if changes are made?
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I agree this is a worrying side effect of seasonal leaderboards no one but cheaters care about.
Now we have to wait for a season to get balance patches? This also implies that we will not have smaller balancing iterations.
FS, please realize that 99% of the player base does not give a toss about leaderboards and are hoping for balance updates to come fast and frequent. Not every couple of months.
The current state of the game does not allow for such a slow moving updates.
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I actually do agree. Changes are needed, and coming back to weave 40 now that I struggled to reach 90, not finding any people to play with, will probably frustate me a bit.
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I believe ( but also truly hope) that they’ll only wait for season 1 to end to make the fixes. That should be Geheimnisnacht (which they said will end the season off). Still, last day of october is a long time to wait.
I sure hope that they don’t think that they can afford to make us wait another month or more to make those fixes.
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It seems they do.
Hey! The least we plebs who aren’t on their discord server can do is wait, endure buggy, poorly executed content while the elite get their shot at the leaderboards and “dominating” their competition.
It is incredibly insulting, then again Fatshark is pretty damn good at giving the middle finger to loyal fans. At least someone is getting pandered too!
Maybe a continued decline in players will stirr the pot. (I know, right. 
)
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Without going there, because it’s plainly wrong, I would rather say that we’ll see their focus on fixes first (they did release a lot of patches already), and balance second, once they have some data on a “fixed game” state. I understand that it will take time. I just don’t think it’s needed to “reset” us to weave 40, as it does ask a pretty long time to get to 90 (and then 120)
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I’ll believe its wrong when its proven to be wrong, not “its wrong ur wrong”.
Actions speak way louder than words.
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How do you want them to prove to you that’s it’s wrong. You should prove that you’re right first. Prove that their discord users are actually enjoying the leaderboard and that they asked for this.
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Leaderboards are hindering updates to maintain whatever delusional “competitive” element they’ve tried to implement? Yeah, that speaks volumes. No one would suspect pandering to a select few if this wasn’t the case.
But here we are.
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Would you just move on? The whining about the discord stuff is honestly getting more annoying than any bugs/issues with the game itself.
And what makes you think they’re holding back bug fixes because of the leader boards?
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Changes will give mixed results@leaderboards.
A better idea is to not lure loyal fans into believing they’re there to help and not serve as paying bugtesters. 
You better believe the discord server is going to loom for a long time.
1 Like
What are those desperately needed fixes?
While I usually don’t always agree with Thunderherald’s rhetoric, he’s correct in assuming that leaderboards are probably why Fatshark witholds balance issues until Season 2.0.
…most people really don’t like that, myself included. There’s quite a number of broken things balance-wise going on right now, both in things being too OP and others in enemies doing bizarre things.
For me, a lot of my personal priorities would be:
- Balancing classes that causes trivialization.
- Creating weaves that don’t create such a defensive heavy playstyle (let me hack and slash please!)
- Balancing beastmen (particularly archers) to have counterplay and to ensure they don’t do random animations/jank (like gors hitting you three rows back with a headbutt that does X amount of damage one way and Y amount of damage another).
Discord still didn’t ask for leaderboards, however, and a good number (read the majority) don’t really compete in them. My quad team rank is something like… super low, and I’ve only completed five weaves. 
I’m an adventure map girl myself.
I think leaderboards and weaves could be a nice thing, but they shouldn’t affect much needed balance since I think the competitive aspect is kind of small, and those that do compete in that manner aren’t rigidly unflexible (but personally have no idea if they care or not if mid-season changes would happen tbh). Further, weaves could appeal to more were they wired a different way (which is what I hope Season 2 will fix??). I’ll have to dig up the link from the Reddit AMA, but FS has mentioned that balance is based on adventure maps/that takes priority, but they seem keen to wait for Season 2; whether that’s for leaderboards or time bug fixing.
Edit: I have concerns outside weaves though. Cata seems very empty, and I want people to play with in QP. Legend has a pretty good fill rate, but I’ve had people I know in a different region join my games randomly through QP because my NA East lobby was apparently the closest option??? I’ll play at high ping, but I know many don’t. I think the majority of my NA Cata lobbies have a team of half EU players because I guess I’m all that’s open around that time. Which is… disheartening. 
13 Likes
I would say the attack speed of enemies (I would say it’s one of the thing that makes melee unreliable since patch), some running attacks (with beastmens mostly) and revisit the staggering of some weapons until cataclysm 3, remove the “added damage %” until weave 120+.
Well, that’s not what Fatshark told us, they specifically pointed fixes as the priority “right now” in order to get the balance right second (as some bugs can cause thoses balances issues).
Now, they probably will keep some weave specifically related balance (so we won’t probably see some changes around winds of death and invisibility), but probably not “enemy balance”.
I would say that trivialized classes (we all think about battle wizard) should stay until the melee is made more reliable again. As it is now, it IS kinda needed to complete some of the more challenging levels. Which goes for your point n°2 where you’re completely right. And probably point n°3 as well.
We had a very heated discussion about cata during the beta, I was for making cata a bit easier, so it can handle Quick playing. Some wanted Cata to stay insane.
The “no reward” for the time spent makes it unappealing for your “usual” players after being completed for challenges. But keeps its appeal for people who wants difficulty (but plays with a fixed group)
I don’t think beginner friendly classes should be trashed entirely as that makes entry points to Cata a bit harsh, but I do think they need to be tuned. FF+LF+Kaboom BW combined with a drakecanon IB can completely nuke a Cata run and make maps feeling somewhat empty.
We had a very heated discussion about cata during the beta, I was for making cata a bit easier, so it can handle Quick playing. Some wanted Cata to stay insane
I remember having discussions here in this forum about this and remember saying Cata should be at a reasonable place for all players. That was in… June? At that time, I was in a very different place in Verm (was playing on a controller). Where I am now, I’m in a bit of a different area and am somewhat torn on my own words.
I’m not feeling Cata super challenging as a difficulty where I “know kung-fu” as was put on this forum by a dev. I’m left feeling somewhat empty as I’m not struggling as I expected I would be. Is the Cata playerbase leaving because it’s too hard, because there’s no loot, or because after people have become acclimated, there’s nothing left to do? A combo of all of them? I’m only in live rarely at this point because there’s just nothing for me. I have no problems staying in modded, the problem is there’s just no one there.
Well, that’s not what Fatshark told us, they specifically pointed fixes as the priority “right now” in order to get the balance right second (as some bugs can cause thoses balances issues).
As much as I love Fatshark, they do suffer from differing lines of information. The problem with the weave structure right now is it’s built for leaderboards. Higher weaves, in particular, are built for high-level players. Nothing wrong with that. If adventure map balance is what always takes priority (as they’ve stated), that inherently affects how weaves are structured, which means a season 2.0 wait most likely (but not guaranteed). Weaves would (and probably are) being revisited so they can be balanced for both. Which… is a somewhat tall order as they do somewhat conflict with each other (for example, Nayre’s “Blockspyre” build is a weave build but contributes very little towards adventure maps). I’d imagine weaves would need to be balanced like adventure maps in a way in order for equilibrium to be struck.
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Oh yeah I forgot how stupidly dumb weaves are on higher levels.
Attack speed, not sure what you mean, even beastmen have normal attack speed (outside of dumb vertical, but that game always had problem with even slighty vertical attacks)
Cares about leaderboard integrity yet a handmaiden on 160 has had an impossible to get 20k score solo in quartet for nearly 2 weeks who now has an even more impossible 60k score to reach along with another 60k score user who is probably just the same guy using another account.
https://steamcommunity.com/id/714123123/screenshots/#scrollTop=0
1 VAC ban on record
Multiple game bans on record
34 day(s) since last ban
Don’t really care if its naming an shaming or w/e because he’s a hacker but he blatantly posts screenshots of his hacking escapades and has 7,000 hours in game? Come on now fatshark how bad is your anti cheat system? https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198844318520 That one is probably actually the one he’s using for leaderboard cheated scores for but I can’t be for sure as they have identical names and avatars when searched up on steam.
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Targeting is still bad, enemies completely ignoring nearest players, which with clipping results in entire patrols running through you for whatever target.
Enemies still move, attack, fall into or through you just to become immovable object a second later.
And the third member if the triumvitare is hyperdensity which - is completely ignored by beastmen -we can at this point view as feature and not a bug. If they couldn’t fix it until now, they will probably never be able to tackle it.
And there are small things like beastmen ignoring the rule of “the more you are close the less damage you do”, banner placement in unreachable places, missing sound cues, enemies spawning too close behind a pebble or a blade of grass.
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Just my two cents, but the big reason I’m not bothering to pursue Cata right now is bugs and balance issues. It doesn’t feel like a fair but harsh challenge, it feels simply unfair. You can do everything right, get hit through your block or get a silent horde/special that instantly down you, and there goes the run. This same problem exists in all levels of the game, mitigated just by more forgiving difficulty.
If it was fair I’d be happy to be banging my head against it with just bots, as I did with Legend (even pre-BBP) and Deathwish. As it is, it’s not the lack of loot that has me ignoring it (this might be a factor for some players, but the loot incentive is pretty poor in this game), it’s lack of fun.
Regarding the balance; I get that they need info and they’re working on bugs, but it’s important to address the problems that currently exist in some way. Reduce number of Beastmen in hordes, or their damage. Just do it temporarily, you can always revert it. Right now, they’re just not a fun faction to face, and I say this having hoped FROM BEFORE LAUNCH (literally as soon as I saw that Pactsworn image with the empty space) that we’d get to fight Beastmen.
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