I feel like smoke grenades just dont do enough right now to be considered worth taking over the other grenades, considering the penance was killing like a 1000 or something people in smoke, why not add a disoriented debuff to enemies in smoke that makes their attack slower and widen the dodge frame, and also maybe make them take like 15-25% more damage?
Also, I feel you should regain toughness inside smokes, to make them safer and more beneficial to people who might not be able to use the smoke to kill shooters well, so they are safer after exiting it and it is like a small respite to them
And for people who may say âthis is just psyker shield but as a grenadeâ, the radius is much smaller, it doesnt effect enemies inside the radius like the shield does, it lasts shorter, and it generally much more inconsistent
The actual effect radius of smokes is smaller than the visual and should be increased. Smokes also donât affect shotgunners for some reason which is really brutal and should be fixed. Smokes are also just plain buggy unfortunately.
Iâm not sure about having smokes that apply extra buffs and debuffs by default. Maybe some of the grenade upgrade talents in the veteran tree could add different effects though.
Smoke grenades are straight trash. Tanner made a good video demonstrating their performance:
I hadnât even seen them used since their first launch (admittedly I took a ~year break?) ⌠until Havoc.
Not to say theyâre currently in a good state, but absolutely the first time Iâd ever been grateful that a teammate brought smoke grenades.
I really like the smoke grenades as they are the most tactical to use. Though I have seen one idea that has grown for me: diminish flames in the area of the smoke. Next to the physic logic this would create a nice additional use case
People continue to call âliteral gunner immunityâ useless and at this point the fight is just so tiring XD. I feel smokes on vet are like brain burst on Psyker.
Everyone equips them and then are just baffled that they arenât used for literally every used case ever and then call them trash just because âI canât use this literal utility ability all the time always for everything? must be trash!â
Like come on peopleâŚwe sit here praising a 2 second bubble on Psyker like itâs the best thing ever yet a guaranteed 30 second dome that keeps all forms of gunners (besides shotgunners, as they are close range anyway) from picking away/completely melting your toughness and allowing you to focus on the horde of ragers in front of you isnât just a fantastic tool that is insanely useful.
Yes, it wonât drop the pox walker wave, but if youâre having trouble with that especially while said gunners and shooters arenât harassing you, I donât know what to tell you. And all the meta guns deal with heavily armored targets (plas and boltgun) so just, please just put your melee weapon on. I know itâs hard for most vets but thereâs a 10% melee buff node directly after the smoke for a reason.
Your gun deals with armor, melee the horde, smoke to make the shooters a none issue/able to be dealt with later once the horde is thinned. It also just makes objective missions a breeze, able to smoke the one on it and keep all enemies off of them with a few shouts and pushes. Like I justâŚitâs a utility blitz, itâs meant for utility, please why does every person think the stuff that requires you to use things tactically and actually think is garba-
I think I just answered my own questionâŚ
At least Havoc was the buff smokes needed I guess.
smokes shouldnât be in the game. Youâre just not going to take them into anything for any reason other than the meme. Shredders deal damage and kill everything, krak grenades deal damage and stunlock bosses. Smoke blinds your team to specials, drowns out sound to make hearing specials impossible, and provides cover to the already darkly coloured enemies inside of them. Best case scenario is that things donât shoot you, but VoC and shredder spam already provide enough aoe spam that prevents things from shooting at you while dealing considerable damage.
If they were to buff smoke in a way that it mattered, it still wouldnât be fun. You donât want more spammable options in this game that turn off ranged enemies or specials, thereâs plenty of that available in the form of abilities, ranged weapon suppression/aoe, sliding and dodge mechanics, etc.
I think they should remove them and just replace them with a ranged support tool stim option that buffs a single player with only one use in stock. Blitzes donât all have to be aoe enemy clearing options, and it gives the class a more interesting support option beyond VoC spam. Could even be the only blitz option that has a weapon special that chooses which stim to shoot, or have an extra talent upkeep to choose which type of stim itâs loaded with from start to finish, whichever would help with balance the most.
It does further encourage Vetâs blitz spam meta, with having a whole talent that regenerates nades for them, but it also means thereâs a reason to now take the extra nade talent. stimming 2 people for rushing a boss kill or clearing a room in havoc would be pretty nice and fun to play around with.
Smokes should be replaced by mines that donât break stealth to place.
That about sums. I struggle to think of more than a couple of times where the smokes in the past werenât meme/troll nades âIâm not a meta slave 111!!â types or the âI canât spare a pointâ crowd.
A shredder frag nade would have been far, far more useful in every situation then and doesnât hinder your team; canât speak to havocs+smokes.
Useful tests and conclusion, smokes had always made situations worse 99% of the time, nothing like obscuring your teamâs vision. Not normally a fan of many YT vids and streamers, but he raises some good points in the vid about a trapper closing in behind the big stuff and netting you from and nigh undodgeable distance. Also a good theory, people saw gunners being suppressed and moving and attributed it to smokes.
Top comment sums it up
It really is one of those âReddit takesâ that apparently has a foothold here too.
You should have seen how Sedition warriors from the Steam forums screeched how they âclutchâ with Smokes all the time (bro I chucked it before a gunner bro I just saved the run bro) and how super effective they are 
it should be a weird field of flat smoke like Bardinâs smoke bomb, the visual obstruction has no purpose in the game. it would be a lot easier to see that youâre in an area of effect and actually shoot things from in there. I think it could maybe work like the rejectâs tox gas. not in directly damaging and debuffing enemies, but giving you some tiny buff like -15% enemy hitmass and +8% attack speed. then obviously improve some of the interactions, like itâd be nice if enemies couldnât track you as easily in there with hit targetting in melee. you are giving up vetâs 2 other grenades that are actually really good.
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