Sienna's Beam Staff is a Concern

Uhhh…scary…“a whole thread” , a whole thread with the same vocal 10-15 players minority lol

The class is working as intended, kid, unlike battle wizard (needs to be revamped completely) and unchained( needs some tweaks ) It’s time to fix other classes, not listen to some dubious suggestions of melee fanboys who didn’t get green circles and feel useless.s. Maybe you should play better not to feel useless? Strangely enough, in my group everyone carries their weight.

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Flag his last post and move on. He provided enough means to get censored.

Right. so it’s ok to tell me to get out, but I can’t respond to that. lol

Well sure you can. In a mature way. Which you failed to do. You resorted to childish insults. He can tell you all he wants to get out, you can safely ignore it. Its not like he threatened you if you didnt do it.

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It’s not. If anything heat generated by this staff needs to be toned down coz now this staff works only if you sacrifice all your other talents for heat reducing ones. Even with +10% crit quite often it comes dangerously close to “red” overheat and the closer it gets to it the slower the bolt stave is which balances it out on its own.

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Man I heard that exact argument coming from me when Waystalker was broken OP in closed beta.
Noone is saying to break it just to adjust it, if you don’t think the beam staff is the best weapoin for her right now by a long shot than there is no point in arguing with you anyways and if you brought every class up to her standard legend would be a cakewalk - it even is now.

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Heartily agree with all im playing less and less its just boring right now even champ and legend if you want to take part you have to take a ranged and well this game doesn’t do it well and its not why we play vermintide. ofc im not saying ranged shouldnt be a thing it should be a powerful and valuable resource, but this codtide game we have is just plain dull.

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what does codtide mean?

This^^

You cant play well a melee at all since ther eis also the phatom strikes problem were sometimes you attack 2 shitty zombies nad you hit one of them and the other one not. You doesnt cut his attack so you get hit for free then you lose 80% of your life since you are playing legend. Why not playing a ranged champion were you can evade any kind of damage sicne they dont even arrive to melee most of the times.

This kind of meta just does taht most classes are useless. Ofc you can play them, but the dificulty of the game changes soo much when you play a ranged that when you play a melee.

I was mainning Sienna and got her first a lvl 30 than any other character. I used to play beam staff with her on the beta as unchained. Stopped playing unchained since beam was broken, in the sense of the free crits, and since they change pushing to ventilate. Not worth to die for any kind of attack. Right now with all patches i guess its ok. I played all the way Sienna with bolt staff. Even like that she is strong. But as others say, Beam staff is good on everything. A shootgun with big spread, stun, nice aiming for specials, nice damage…

All of that plus that shitty drop of reds is really making me get bored. Deeds should be the biggest deal in this game. Legend is completely diferent when you play melee than ranged. And then you forget al the classes that are meh compared with other classes. I really believe they have to look at balancing.

I dont think each class should be only played one way to be effective. That makes most talents useless as weapons etc…

its a little humorous (well i thought so) dig at the current meta im putting CoD (call of duty) and tide (vermintide) together . because its a bad fps whose multiplayer revolves around competing for kills.

Last night when I sat down to play some casual Champion games I was the Shade. Sienna playing like that completely invalidates everything I could hope to do on that class. I am an aggressive player and I attack pretty much everything in proximity and when I tried, everything was stolen from me. There’s no way to make that not sound like I want the scoreboard (and this is such a spiteful ‘oppression’ that people pack into their words on gameplay) but the point is, I wasn’t able to do anything. I had no reason to be there because I was clearly not needed in fighting anything.

Vermintide 1 required nobody to rally around a tank and support him while he kept them all alive. Everyone had the opportunity with every weapon to do good. Here, some weapons are going beyond that. They’re doing everything and the problem is they need to do that or more. There’s way more going on and we don’t know yet what the ultimate balance plan is.

But like I said, this is how I felt playing next to it without getting into technical balancing. I don’t get to enjoy any of the combat because it all vanishes in a blaze of disintegrating rat corpses, not to mention some of those fire effects completely obscure my screen when I’m in melee. At no point in any of the games unless I was also a class capable of trivializing hordes (Bounty Hunter, Waystalker) could I meaningfully contribute to and enjoy the combat. I’m about to descend on a Chaos Warrior, it gets blasted and dies instantly. Boss spawns, stunlocked by Pyromancer spam.

Sienna being a ‘glass cannon’ in some circumstances is not reason enough for it to have this power. I don’t want it nerfed to oblivion, but it can’t be this powerful to overshadow the others. I also don’t think it makes any sense for a shield/CCer to not contribute to fight beyond just blocking and shoving, a problem Vermintide 1 didn’t have.

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I see some issues in your argument here guys.

People said Sienna outperform or atleast perform as good as Kerillian and victor ranged spec, which can be true, however.

One note about Keri ranged spec is that her ultimate ammo recovery nerf is not effective and still gives your 50% of your ammo back ( instead of 20%), wait until they fix that and you wont see perma spam swiftbow anymore. So after this will be fixed keri will surely be outperformed by sienna easily, which is already the case in term of utility since sienna beam staff shotgun can just control anything in melee ( the knockback is real against patrols and should totally be removed for a dmg oriented character imo ) and snipe special faster than swiftbow, and if you use longbow your horde clearing is worse than sienna.

Now about victor, same thing here, if you use the glitch passive you can do as much dmg as sienna and have unlimited ammo for spamming, wait until they fix this glitch and sienna will definitively be the OP character if not already, victor damage at long range is pretty bad tho, sienna outperform him easily in that regard.

So saying other character perform as much as her is false since thoses character are bugged or using glitch to do that, while sienna has no glitch, she is just too powerful. Period.
Just watch J sat solo run with beam staff, it looks like a walk in the park there is nothing this staff is bad for.

This is suppose to be a teamplay game so every weapon should have their weaknesses that your teammate should complement. Beam staff is like a shotgun with a sniper rifle combined with unlimited ammo and no reaload time, how is that not op ?

Imo i think beamstaff shotgun should not knockback anymore this is just the best control weapon atm against patrol or anything in close range ( or atleast not KB armored enemies ), the left click right click should get nerfed hard in term of damage ( you should hold beam way longer to get decent dmg ), this would make the staff mainly good to control special ( since beam stagger them ) but not to kill them instantly.
So beam staff would be a good horde clearing weapon with long range beam to stunlock special from afar and kill them over time. The flaws would be to not kill special that fast. And of course the heat generation mechanic should get a look at.

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Problem is… they already tried that and beam was absolutely useless since the flamethrower had armor piercing (shotgun of beam was weaker too). Why not try the opposite, since we have a flamethrower staff for crowd control already. Why not make the shotgun charge 40%, 50% heat per hit and it becomes a BEAMstaff for high range only. Ofc it would be probably so bad that most players would switch to a conflag / boltstaff (even though bolt is quite powerful on his own) but would maintain an emergency shotgun with 2 shots and back to melee (could fit unchained too with the high overheat).

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I’ve played with some amazing Siennas, Bounty Hunters, and Waystalkers and I’ve seen them compete very closely for kills with Sienna not even having top BOSS damage sometimes. It just depends on whether she got a lot of agro or not. But Sienna doesn’t bring ANYTHING to the team except ranged damage really, not even group health regen like Waystalker, group stamina regen like Handmaiden, or team crit/dmg buffs from Witch Hunter, etc. All Sienna’s melee weapons are pretty bad relative to others, too.

If a Sienna is shooting your or getting in your way, that isn’t a reason to nerf her ranged, just kick bad players from your team or if they are host find a new game.

What I see here is a lot of people complaining that they can’t get top kills with any class they pick. This probably isn’t your game. Allowing any class to get top kills regardless of whether they bring group buffs etc to the table, is just going to ensure that only the classes with good buffs get played.

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the part i find hilarious is how well you see most beam staff users doing, and they don’t even know about right clicking with the beam up to insta kill specials. they don’t even use the weapon efficiently but still destroy everything in sight.

top meme.

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I love Sienna. The pyromancer is a delight to play – I favor beamstaff and dagger – and I think the beamstaff might need some rebalancing.

My strategy is fairly simple but nuanced. Stay a little bit behind the party, fire off the flaming skull whenever I see an elite or special; failing that, I try to stagger enemies that are flanking my melee teammates or shielded vermin in general. When a horde comes up, I try to stagger them with the beamstaff so my team can get into position; I use the shotgun blast when there’s a worthwhile clump. When I begin to overheat, I dive in with the dagger, which cools me down when I crit. When we fight bosses, I request a bodyguard and then focus all of my attention on the boss – doing slow, but highly regular damage until it dies.

I can utterly murder, provided I am always protected, but I am much less useful against elites at close range – they will predictably end me. So it’s on me to keep my melee folks between them an me. I can do wonders against a boss, provided I’m protected, but without that constant protection, I will not be able to keep the beam going and I will die.

From my perspective, Sienna is exceptionally good – but she needs to be well positioned and well protected. This makes sense as a wizard class.

Now about the beam staff. I don’t believe I should be able to roast hordes with it. Slowing them down is one thing (this seems like support/control that will allow other team members to get into position)… but outright roasting them at a distance doesn’t seem fair. I think that the first tick of her shot should stagger and do minimal damage, then the second tick should light and do regular damage.

This change would take away her ability to slay a horde at a distance, while not impacting her ability to stagger a horde (supporting her team) or deal with bosses (which is the core beam staff purpose in my mind). So yeah, it probably needs adjusting, just don’t lessen it’s effectiveness against bosses.

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Please just stop man. You don’t even understand the classes. Shade is for BACKSTABBING. You can’t backstab hordes or ranged enemies. You BACKSTAB bosses and Chaos warriors and such. This is where she shines. And if you are able to keep enemies off Sienna while she wrecks everything she can then you did a great job! It is called TEAMWORK.

“Sienna being a ‘glass cannon’ in some circumstances is not reason enough for it to have this power.”

You must not play at Legend. In legend she falls over dead if a beserker looks at her or a leech grabs her for more than a second. SHE NEEDS a good melee hovering over her. And she certainly is not able to watch every direction at once, so you’re really just exagerating expressing your feelings of helplessness.

If you really just can’t stand it, then hey man start your own games and don’t play with any Siennas. I don’t even run into that many of them, let alone ones that are super good.

There are 15 classes and I really don’t want them all to have the same kill potential. I want different classes to have different playstyles and shine in different aspects.

You might support your argument with scoreboards showing Sienna with 500 kills and yourself with just 50 kills, but you can’t because those scoreboards don’t exist. It is more like Sienna has 300 kills and you have 175-200. A class that is far far tankier than Sienna SHOULD have less kills and less damage done. There’s a lot that the scoreboard doesn’t show, that makes the difference between good melee and bad melee, and odds are if you are complaining about having nothing to do you are either on an easier difficulty level (which is fine, but just don’t stress these levels, they are for learning and leveling up not end game balance) or you really just aren’t as good as you think you are and could be doing a lot more work to benefit your team, which includes the glass cannon Sienna.

If you could match Sienna’s kills and damage and utility with tanky melee classes, there just wouldn’t be a reason to play squishy sienna.

" am an aggressive player and I attack pretty much everything in proximity "

This is just so bad…I mean maybe you should stick to games like COD yourself. Or just play Sienna. It is obvious that you want those sweet sweet kills and don’t care about your team, you can’t play tactically or coordinate with your team, you just attack everything you see because you want a mindless click fest. You’re not a person I would want to play with. And if you did play Sienna you’d be one of those everyone complains about, the one running ahead pulling everything even when a horde is about to spawn, FFing teammates repeatedly etc.

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Really bad analysis. If you’re competing for kills then you’re a bad player tbh, and you aren’t actually completing as many maps as you could be with as many books as you could.

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Yeah lots of complaints here like “I AM A TANKY TANK MELEE WITH GROUP BUFFS WHY CANNOT I GET AS MANY KILLS AS A GLASS CANNON THAT HAS CRAPPY MELEE WEAPONS I LITERALLY GET NO KILLS EVER I LITERALLY HAVE NOTHING TO DO EVER”
Yet none of them post their scoreboards with their zero kills or even double digit kills.
If they are trying at all then they should at least each get half as many kills as Sienna BY JUST WATCHING HER BACK. If not then they need to improve their builds and playstyle, because that’s what I get as tanks and I play with some of the best Sienna’s in the world.

I really don’t like dismissing people’s criticisms and I’m not the sort to tell people to ‘git gud’, but in this case I really feel like the complaints are very unwarranted. There are some tweaks that could be made to make Sienna have to worry more about overcharge at max level. People just have some weird prejudice against there being successful ranged characters because they prefer to just bash skulls themselves (maybe their aim isn’t so good so they themselves can’t excel with ranged characters) and they feel like “ranged is stealing all of ‘my’ kills”.

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I would personally say that the beam staff is in a good spot in Legendary, the other staffs though could use a buff or adjustment. On the other hand there arent many situational scenarios where other staffs would be of much use either which is a issue with map/game design as much as it is with actual weapon design.
Hero Power has to be taken into account because it will dictate how effective a weapon is.
Keep in mind that Champion/lower difficulties are not scaled towards a character having 600 Hero Power which can make a weapon seem much more overpowered compared to how it functions in Legendary.

Siennas Pyromancer class also needs to be taken into account with how fast shes able to negate any overcharge she generates which can further exacerbate the effectiveness of the beam staff. Her ability to clear her overcharge definitely needs a tuning pass.I would also say that compared to all the other heros, Sienna probably has the weakest melee combos and weapon animations compared too other heroes due too mainly her being a ranged class/mage. I am not saying her melee is not effective, but it is by no means something her character is built around aside from her Unchained class which still leaves a lot to be desired balance wise in order to make her an effective battle mage that isn’t as focused on ranged combat.

From personal experience playing Legendary exclusively approaching 300+ hours, the beam staff is a great all-rounder weapon but mainly sniping priority targets and dealing constant dmg on bosses. I would attribute the beam staff being too effective due to how quickly Pyromancer can negate the overcharge generated with her ability. The beam/sniper /shotgun blast has the same effectiveness as any of the other heroes ranged weaponry when used properly.

The biggest issue I would say is that Siennas other staffs are just very lack luster, and more so only situational which is why they will never see much use . Fireball and Conflag both share the terrible left click attacks which only really leaves their right click charge,both lack in damage and usability. While Firestorms left click is absolutely useless and the right click charge can be great for crowd control although it leaves you wide open in order to build a charge. Dont forget that none of those staffs aside from the bolts staff has any ranged killing effectiveness for dealing with enemies further out, and even then the bolt staff is lackluster due to being a straight line weapon forcing you to have very good aim in order to hit a target .

I also think this is part of the same issue as people saying that they have Kerillian,Salz,Ranger Bardin sniping or shooting everything with their ranged weapons which comes down to heroes having different roles compared to one another. People will never be happy because one hero will always do a role better then another, there is absolutely no possible way to balance this without severely gutting certain heroes let alone ruining their weapons and their class. This is also a issue with people placing higher importance on who killed more rats then the other, without taking into account Kruber and Baradin kept all the Elites and mobs in check leaving us free to shoot things.

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