Sienna is in a rough place

First ya nerf THP and then you nerf sienna some more, do you, hate her or something? or is there some kinda outstanding meta that’s just so obscenely broken it HAS to be fixed, you know, nerfs are a lazy way to balance a character, why not i dunno…give players diversity, make her other careers look more appealing in their own ways rather than “adjusting” and “tweaking” her again and again, because all i ever see you guys do to my girl is nerf everything about her, she’s basically trash tier of the 5, kerillian is obscenely strong, and very customizable, kruber is solid and very good at what he does, bardin can seamlessly use a couple careers with reasonably equal capability, saltzspire is good at doing similar but in a different way than bardin.

But every time i play sienna it makes me wonder, what is viable and flexible about sienna? she can burst dps and nuke hoards if they line up but even then kerillian can easily outdo sienna in that regard with no risk to the party, kruber too, she’s so niche that she can’t really do anything like the other 4 can, on lower difficulties she’s a god sent aoe nuke that that wipe the floor with weak AF hordes, but you take her to champion or legendary, or even cataclysm and she struggles hard as hell, why? because the skill gap from veteran and champion is large, the damage to companions doesn’t hurt much if you do champion sure, but you hop to legendary and it’s punishing, not because it hurts metric ton but because of the nature of her character, she doesn’t need ammo, and her abilities are often target seeking, aoe oriented. she in a niche place and i wish she’d get some love as well, so she has her ability to shine outside being a support dp.

She can’t be a special or armor slayer, all the others do that better, unless you use her sword and fireball staff, she’s terrible at horde suppression in most cases, and anything above veteran risks hurting teammates 95% of the time, there’s never a game where a sienna hasn’t hit me at least once, or instances where teammates get grazed by a fireball or by local (casting the attack) or the splash aoe (attack impact radius), even when being meticulous it takes high amounts of skill to moderately perform as sienna.

With the recent nerf to THP she can’t rely on niche builds to sustain her health or keep her from using potions, literally god-tier sienna relies around one cheeseable aspect about her and working around it, it’s not that she’s solid you have to MAKE her solid, i use her very often on champion and legend, occasionally cataclysm if i’m feeling a bit sadistic to myself, or others.

The point of this topic isn’t really just to complain about sienna or whine about how she’s not a god-tier healer-tank-damage dealer, it’s that she just is extremely niche and the last pick in most scenarios when running cataclysm or legend. and her spawning as a bot is a bad sign for a run

so now that my opinion regarding her place in vermintide isn’t very good, is out of the way, i’d like to suggest a few changes to her

a relook at her weapon usage, you’ll find no experienced sienna uses the mace, like ever, her go-tos are three weapons as of the current update, the fire sword, the crowbill, and the flail,

the underperforming weapons

Her dagger, and her two handed mace, the dagger can easily dump out dps like mad but it’s maneuverability doesn’t provide sienna with much and often times other heroes will steal elite and special kills sometimes it will just all around under-perform , it doesn’t have any particular specialty and the lack of horde control makes it a once decent THP sustaining weapon, now that THP drains extremely quick, it’s borderline useless to bring as armored and specials tank the dagger and set up other heroes to easily snatch kills from sienna, hordes too.

Her mace is just an all around dumpster fire, it’s slow, it doesn’t have any follow-through, no cleavability, it’s charge up is slow, slow, sloooooow, by the time the animation begins you’re already wide open and the cancel is also very slow, leading to sequential punishes by elites, specials and infantry, it’s dps is to say the least, underwhelming and in no way will i ever use that waste of a weapon space in any circumstance other than to nerf myself in a match which is counterproductive since sienna isn’t in a good place already.

fire-sword is essentially her bread and butter jack of all, it’s horde control, got a quick and punishing charge, and it’s satisfying to use, it’s not good for armor which is fine i suppose, i don’t have much to complain about this weapon, it’s balanced and the staple of most sienna starting out and for those centered around horde control and support dps

flail is an example of what the two handed version should be, it’s charge up is quick and chain-able, it’s punishing to hordes and EXCELLENT at what it does and breaks up horde dps, staggering small group after small group not only allowing sienna to perform as mid-tier dps but also horde suppression without relying on fireball or conflag in some circumstances. it’s only downside is that it’s cleave is…somewhat underwhelming sometimes, mostly against cowmen when seeming aren’t very phased by her normal swings, sometimes even her charged swings, although latency could be a factor in this.

Her staffs

Fireball staff: it is the staple of sienna users, it’s mid-tier aoe, and provides excellent coverage against small horde groups at a distance and her primary fire allows for some easy kills on elites and special, sometimes killing them in one shot (gutter-runners) if it’s a headshot, it’s solid but a look over could never hurt.

conflag staff: i won’t lie, i’ve used it rarely, since it’s alt fire is okay but the charge up is just a SMIDGE too slow to max size, and ends up under performing at it’s task, it’s flash burst is okay, but that’s just it, it’s…okay, it’s not bad, BUT it’s not good either.

flamewave staff: veteran and lower, it’s god-tier cheese weapon, charge it up and fire off while your teammates slaughter the staggering enemies through it, it’s overheat generation is a bit punishing unless you spec it for heatsink, when you go above veteran, unless sienna is front and center and no one else, this weapon will ALWAYS hit allies if they are within sienna’s field of view with this weapon, and the higher difficulty you go, the more troll-like this weapon gets as you can very easily damage allies using it on legend and it will wittle small chunks at a time too. it’s terrible for anything above veteran unless you’ve got an experienced team that knows immediately situations where sienna should use it, which is in small areas and hallways, it’s an infantry slayer nothing more.

beam staff: …i don’t think i need to explain this weapon much, it’s horrible in just about every aspect you can think of, the only upside to using this is to help career skills shine and a tight damage lane (no aoe damage unless allies literally walk INTO the beam). it’s damage is lackluster, it’s dps is lackluster, and i don’t see myself using it really at all in any case scenario with sienna as she is

Bolt staff: it’s niche, but it’s got it’s uses, it’s good for crits, it’s good for sustained tight dps, it’s overall dps hurts a little but if you build for it, it can perform well and assist your career skills decently, it’s only on downside is that i feel it’s charge fire should penetrate multiple enemies and stagger as well, given it’s literally a large bolt of fire being flung like it’s been fired out of a sniper class rifle.

closing proposal

I really can’t claim to know everything and anything about sienna, but right now it’s just something feel i can’t ignore anymore, she’s has problem builds, her weapons are lack luster for the most part and her ability to dps is highly dependant on the situation and often times it requires excessive levels of skill to perform as a sienna effectively the higher level you go, at first it seems pretty silly, of course you need to have more skill to survive on very hard difficulties, it’s not that, it’s that sienna is dependant on key factors that allow her to proficiently survive, and often times she will still down, be it from a sticky key, causing a fast handed player to snag on her staff, firing it off to the point or immediately exploding without a chance to vent via ability at all, she needs certain conditions to be met and a player with either a foolishly cheesy build or an extremely solid team to provide them a shield they can support dps behind, she for all intents and purposes above veteran is a support dps, that really has it’s moments when she shines and does amazing often piggybacking off the other heroes to do so, or when the player is skilled enough and their team is a good enough meat shield for her to abuse, there’s no case where she just “does great and actively supported front-line”.

So all i’m saying fatshark is, as a sienna player through and through and someon who has worked with other sienna users, she’s…not in the best of places and she could use some serious TLC and some relooking, maybe even a weapon rework.

if you read to this point, thank you for listening to me ramble about my feelings towards sienna at this point in vermintide.


BW turned every cata game into a walking simulator.
the nerf was justified and overdue. i´m glad shes dead (she isn´t, still viable, i just want to be dramatic because BW sucked the fun out of the game since 2.0)


Ugh, not this again…
BW and Pyromancer are very strong careers. She has a good selection of weapons with fire sword, dagger, flail and crowbill. Fireball, conflag and bolt staffs are great. Great horde clear, constant use of range attacks and loads of temp hp generation. Only BW got nerfed and ONLY one build that was clearly overpowered and horribly designed.


Unchained too. You can make invincible stagger builds for it to support your team, or make it a tanky melee DPS. Or play her as a ranged-frontline with a Overcharge build + Conflag.

Other than a few weird or not worth using Talents, she’s absolutely fine.


Rough place you mean quite powerhouse


Bro try it with Famished Flames BW. It slays. Wrecks elites/specials on legend at least in no time.


Yes, yes there was.


UC is bad and has been for a while, I’ll give you that. However, I can tell from your post that you are not setting yourself up for success on Sienna.

  1. You should be running Stagger ThP or cleave ThP with dagger. This weapon is very strong on pyro if you run a melee build. As in, you can smoke dedicated melee careers in damage and kills using the dagger with high crit chance and attack speed. It’s also serviceable on BW with Famished Flame. It has a very strong move tech with the push stab and decent dodge.

If you’re trying to do the top damage, Conflag might not be the best weapon in the game. If you’re trying to carry your team, it probably is the best weapon in the game. You mention it takes too long to full charge. This is true on pyro on UC. However, you are not supposed to full charge it all the time. In fact, it is very rare that I full charge conflag on pyro or UC. You need to finger roll it.

It literally does. You can kill like 4 monks at a time on Cata and 2 Maulers. Not sure how many infantry mobs that translates into, but it’s a lot. Also, Bolt staff is one of the most powerful sniper weapons in the game when combined with BW’s Volcanic Force and passive charge speed. Also really strong for melee builds on pyro.


You will find no love for Sienna for the most part. I suspect Sienna to be one of the least favored of characters, regardless of the advantages of using her. I base this on what I’ve seen others claim and FS Forum’s polls from the past.

I both agree and disagree with some of your ideas. I feel like the conflag staff was fine without a fast full charge, especially with the FF/LF combo. I also must say that some level of rebalance was necessary. The abuse of Kaboom was pretty bad (from what I’ve read), though I don’t think the FF/LF combo was completely a lost cause. Admittedly, I adored the FF/LF + conflag playstyle. It felt very much like my idea of what a firey battle wizard should be. The crowd control felt satisfactory, and outside Kaboom, it made it so that the other players still had the typical roles to fill with monster control, long-range, and specials.

Where I agree most is that Sienna seems to have lost her identity with the latest nerf. What’s the point of playing a fire wizard if you’re constrained to playing like a fire-stylized melee combatant all of the time? I think it’s a mistake to compare all of the characters and try to endlessly seek parity among them. There’s no point of having unique characters if you’ll eventually submit to little complaints and equalize all of their play-styles to appease our fellow players that probably don’t use/like Sienna in general.

Sienna is still viable but not fun, IMO. Sure, I could adhere to the current Cata sets and be restricted to the same boring playstyle that every class has with small nuances here and there. thp, stagger, etc. You can combine the beam staff + FF for a decent monster/special build and compete with Krub/elf-players or you can go UC and be another stagger machine. Viable, just not fun if you like the idea of being a wizard.

LF + conflag is still alive… It’s just not worth using because of its under-performing utility. Yes, you CAN use whatever you want and survive by the skin of your teeth. Let’s be honest, no one in Legend/Cata wants to carry another player so they can use their preferred play-style rather than the most useful one. It’s a risk not worth taking. The same people that have complained her into the abyss are probably the folks that will also kick you for taking too much damage in a run. Now, I don’t think that comment represents the whole VT community, but it sure seems to apply to a very loud and upset minority.

Honestly, I don’t quite understand why so many people aggressively despise Sienna. It’s like there’s some kind of awkward brand loyalty or misplaced competitiveness. It’s a largely a co-op game, and I highly doubt that the vast majority of players felt like Cata had become boring because Sienna has a great CC option for a second. She did need some retooling, but now she’s… just meh.

Anyways, that’s just like… My opinion.

Yeah the beam staff is like her best staff. With famished flames you can destroy bosses by beaming them center-mass. And it’s absolutely godly for crowd control at short range by using its shotgun alt attack. Which hits a lot of things in a wide arc. Then you have its sniping attack for specials that takes like two shots usually.

Otherwise for staves I think the fireball kind of sucks now that enemies don’t clip together as much and its damage is way too low. Or maybe it just needs a wider aoe.

The beam staff is incredibly strong. Roll pyro, kill a special get unlimited heat, and you can hold right click and left click those horde clusters back with force. Don’t forget when you hold the beam and right click it’s a sniper hit, deals with far off enemies like a charm. Great staff.

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I strongly agree that Sienna´s melee arsenal is lacking in generally viable and fun options, it´s probably the main reason i do not like her myself.

However, i cant overlook the fact that Battle wizard had at least one obscenely strong build that put her miles ahead of everyone else and to be honest i dont even know what it´s name was.

Kaboom wizard? Burn wizard? Roaster of marshmallows wizard? No idea.

But what i do know is that she had this one talent that buffed her burn DOT damage up very very high, which when combined with another talent that made is so her dot was permanent until the target died created a insanely OP synergy.

She´d sneeze at a horde and 5 seconds later they´d have burnt to death while she ran ahead looking for another one.

When i ran a few legend maps with wizards like these the rest of the team hardly got to do anything at all, was worse than the time when the zealot or slayer did this since Sienna is so good at taking out any number of enemies.

Not even hagbane elf compares since one who is truly spamming runs out of ammo, good one will probably conserve ammo for hordes and monopolize those but at least she does not spam at everything.

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I don’t agree with the OP on pretty much anything.

Except Mace. That weapon is, in fact, hot garbage. It did not fare well in the transition to 2.0.

Every weapon and staff has a use (except for mace) and some of the ones you list as underperforming are actually borderline OP, like Bolt Staff. In fact:

It does exactly this. It always has. It’s literally the #1 aoe weapon in the game when the horde is kind enough to stand in a straight line.

Sienna has several of the best builds in the game. Melee Pyro… Volcanic Force Bolt Staff BW… Unchained Dagger/Crowbill… Flame Sword BW. Everything can work (except mace) if you master the weapons and their combos/synergies. Sienna is a high skill floor class, she has to constantly weave staff use with melee, while managing heat, and not dying. It’s not easy, but all of her careers are top tier builds in skilled hands.


Pyro was super super strong or some might say broken before, she is fine now with ult cdr on range nerf and still one of the strongest sienna careers.

Battle wizard is fine now, only she has alot of useless talent choices which were just lazy fixes. From a bit of testing kaboom is useless now and burnout is better. lingering is still fundamentaly broken even tho it kills super slow. FFa still gives alot of cdr but its not instant anymore so thats good. So you could go fully charge spell bw or just spam with famished and still do alot of dmg by using dots and ults.

I think the ‘meta’ for staves other then bolt are still gonna be famished/ffa/burnout
also beam is only good on bw for like bosses with famished, otherwise its a very bad staff and could need some tweaks. in legend and lower its fine, but every weapon is.

Uchained i dont really play, i think alot of others in the community have suggested some good fixes for her, so dont rlly have an opinion on her.

So i would love to see kasper the game designer adress uc and bw lazy talents and maybe take a look at kaboom again.

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I just wanna chime in and say that Sienna is my main, and I’ve spent more hours on all 3 of her classes than any other character (mostly Unchained) and I will be the first to say that, goddamn, Battle Wizard needed the damn nerf. And not only that, she’s still one of the strongest classes in the entire roster after the nerf.
Pyromancer is in a perfect spot right now.
Unchained needs a buff.


I think there should be more of a discussion on what specifically needs a buff.

I’m having no issues playing her as a ranged FL with Conflag, or as a FL in general with Firesword + Beam shotgunning with the Chain Reaction Talent. Also Fireball + Flail and the Attack Speed Talent works fine. With the Block Cost Talent and some stacking on weapons, she can be near invincible outside of being bursted down or getting really stuck on gas, or ofc the dreaded friendly fire.

My downsides to her are:

  1. Some Talents are near useless (Burning Dregs, Searing Grasp, the non-temp HP ult Talents)
  2. Friendly fire making you explode (I really think this has to go, as it’s the only way I die in most of my matches now)
  3. Lack of melee Armour damage/Boss damage on some weapons (Swords, but Firesword can also stagger Elites forever)

Agree with most of this, but the power on ult is pretty good.

Friendly fire making you explode (I really think this has to go, as it’s the only way I die in most of my matches now)
I don’t remember dying to ff as a uc, maybe when i just ulted and i got Bh ulted in the back, or just got hit and then shot a bit by a teammate, but when you are low as a normal career you can die to ff aswell.

Every melee has its uses, not every melee should have armor/boss dps, i honestly think we have plenty good melee for sienna.

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This is true, but I’d argue that because of Overcharge management, and the benefits of sitting a high Overcharge, you spend more time close to exploding than other Careers spend at low enough health to die to FF.

I also find it far more frustrating to get blown up by FF on UC than any other Career, You can be doing your job and thinking about how well you’re managing it and then suddenly a green hit indicator pops up and you’re dead.

That’s true, and this is not really a big issue for me on melee, but she doesn’t really have much anti-armour at all with a lot of her builds. Most of the points I’ve raised were where I feel UC is slightly weak, as to understand why other people actually think she’s bad. I’ve got a feeling melee weapon versatility is one of the reasons people think so.

I think she’s insane right now and I play her to carry matches in Cata. Especially with Conflag. The main issue I’ve had is FF (blowing her up) because it puts a limit on my gameplay which I don’t see as fair to have (as it’s out of my control), and I can play an otherwise perfect match taking no damage but still die/go down because of a friendly.

Agreed, though I think pyro is a bit strong in melee, which kind of pushes out unchained a little.

Pyro is like whc, perfect career. inb4 fatshark nerfs pyro just to make uc stronger :’(. Kasper better not touch her! >:(