I asked in another thread:
Should someone be able to just solo-quickplay Darktides hardest content?
If so, why?
So I decided to make it a post of its own as I think this topic deserves more thought and input from the community here.
A really skilled player can true-solo DT content and clutch almost the worst teams out of anything. These players are rare though.
On the other hand, why should 4 lower skilled players be able to complete a PUB game on the hardest difficulty?
Im going to work, so I just wanted to squeeze this 
out before I go.
Lower skilled is a relative term so it’s impossible to give a straight answer.
What I consider to be the problem is that skill tree rework introduced so much player power that everyone moved up at least one difficulty tier in what they can handle (even taking more enemy spam into consideration).
This also had an effect of widening the skill difference of players on hardest difficulties, since “lower skilled players” moved up while people that were “on level” couldn’t move up to a new difficulty.
The change that you can clutch a lot easier since the update allowed previously “on level” players to much more easily carry games, so now only 1-2 people are enough carry people who’s personal skill isn’t enough for “hardest difficulty” making it more accessible.
Should the game be made harder because some people are able to do so ?
well first of all, if someone is so far above the cut in terms of skill, aim, movement etc he has every right to shine and show.
besides “hardest” only refers to darktide terms, some prodigies are just “built different”, beat dark souls with bongo drums and not to forget have all the time in the world.
that part alone helped me tremendously the last 6 weeks, not to get drained by the soul-sucker for chump change.
so if myself at 44 can go up a notch if i’m able to dedicate my all to the game 24/7, guys in their prime skipping school for a week or more would solo darktide blindfolded.
second, there should be an “impossible” mode where the main goal is to stay alive as long as the emperor wills it.
and eventually one guy will “tetris” it by finishing the unfinish-able.
in a nutshell thats what we’re made for, evolution and ever improving.
third and on the other side of the coin, why should i waste my 30 minutes of precious spare time cause 3 mooks are to dumb to tie their own shoes?
the most fun matches apart from a 4 man perfect symbiosis would be the "if i want it done right, i do it myself. watch and (hopefully) learn.
no better feeling than doing alone what 3 others couldnt together.
if you tie the other 3 cement blocks to the one capable guy in order to drag him down, he’d lose interest in the game eventually.
for why should i train myself to exhaustion if the outcome is fixed based on the inability of less capable?
while on the otherhand the casuals jump ship shortly after for if no one’s around to carry and they fail 20 matches in a row they “cant enjoy the content they paid for” anymore.
so yeah, if you’re really in the top 0.1% of the playerbase you got the right to solo no matter the weights you carry on your back.
I find this argument so bad.
First, the ability to solo carry was always available even before the tree rework just drop down 1 category of difficulty. You can shine there if you want. You are comfortable on High Intensity? You’ll carry normal intensity no problem. You can do STG with similar skilled players no problem? You’ll carry High-Intensity no problem.
Second, the “cement block” bad players you have to carry is the self generated problem of the current balance. They are there because they can be dragged through. If a team would fail in 5-10 minutes if there are 3 “cement block” these players would quickly sink back to the difficulty they are comfortable with reducing their number to only those who want to actively try to give their best and move up.
The only thing that current difficulty balance achieved is if you are someone who can easily do aurics, and drag 3 players there is nowhere to move up to.
I personally find the game currently tiring when dragging 3 people and boring with +1 with similar skill.
rubbish,
why should i reduce my own abilities i gave my heart and soul for?
in every free time activity of my choice i strive for the utmost possible.
so what if i’m comfortable carrying I II V E G and C I VI ?
quit the game so others keep the ilusion of it being an unachievable carrot on a stick?
no matter what you deem the ceiling, for another dude its basic warmup.
only thing there is is moving upwards or remain at the max for the time be.
all of this sounds like is to hide ones own abilities lest not to demoralize the rest.
and how many have reached that goal? 5% 2% less?
like getting rid of gold medals and settle for bronze cause once you got it, thats it?
yes, thats IT.
and if you add another 4 tiers of auric on top, half a year down the road the good players will sleepwalk them.
nope, leeches and freeloaders are there to ride piggyback, ingame and in life.
they never are “comfortable” anywhere cause they dont put on any effort.
so eventually you want to balance a team game around the weakest link thus making it through impossible on your own?
sure sounds rewarding, not.
all it’ll end in is premades and empty pub lobbies.
Try it in solo quickplay - sure, beat it - no. I prefer when the coop element is hardcore, so to beat the hardest difficulty you should act like a hive mind almost, perfectly synchronized. I don’t like how they shifted DT balance even more towards 4 solo players in one run and the only coop element is resucing from the trapper net or dog.
I don’t think you even should be able to kill a boss solo on any difficulty - kite and revive to kill it together - yes.
Overall, the best thing they can do is to drop some twitch mode alike thing, where you can move sliders and increase enemey hp, dmg, supplies, ultimate CD, etc. So players can create some insane unbeatable difficulties if they want.
Sigh… I think you just don’t get it, but whatever. This is supposed to be co-op game, and you treat it like a solo game.
and if we had equally worthy teammates, this kind of balancing could be done.
given the “quality” of pubs though it’d only end in frustration.
personal skill should always be dominant no matter the genre, what else incentive would there be?
say i had a premade with 3 rl buddies it’d be more relaxed cause the hierarchie would already be established.
but as evolution gave us the strive for the top, you compete, every day, with every one.
the fact we are on the same team doesnt mean i’m cutting some slack in a public match or hold back.
and like i said, turning unavoidale ill suited mates into roadblocks would only lead to opting out of pubs altogether.
then we’d really have a “highest difficulty” cause 1x 1%er is hard to find, good luck recruiting 3 others with equal humor and chemistry so discord doesnt turn into an awkward shtshow
Would it hurt you for the highest difficulty to be balanced in such a way that you couldn’t solo carry?
Again look at my first post on this thread. This whole problem came from the skill tree rework increasing player power. Before that I was comfortable, now it’s too easy. We basically lost a level of difficulty (or one and a half).
I couldn’t carry a “hardest difficulty” game with 3 “cement block” before that, and I can surely do since that update. I haven’t gotten better either, I think I even gotten worse to be honest.
We even actually lost difficulty since the skill tree update, because for a time V-E-G was bugged and it spawned full-powered bosses 80% of the time so you could regularly get double energy drink bosses. That was difficult. Since it was fixed I don’t even find monstrous specials much harder than STG if you bring an anti-boss setup (it’s a lot more fun tho).
It should be a part of the game, cause you are a part of the team, so you should be reliable. But it doesn’t mean you should be able to do key things in the COOP game solo. In my mind what coop games are for is to simulate synergy effect - the combined result of you working as a team is vastly bigger than just a summary of 4.
Only to some degree. But humans are social creatures, we tend to group, becasue it’s just easier to survive. We were hunting mamothes in packs, we have team sports. Wh40k even explore this theme about the Imperium - a group (humankind) means more than individuality, despite it consists of such individualities, you don’t compete, you serve.
And there is another way to look at that - don’t compete with others, compete with your old self.
Competition in PvE coop game doesn’t make sense, because it’s almost like you approach it from the perspective of a racing game then? And it’s not a racing game, cause there is no leaderboard, and noone can see you personal achievement? Tbh, i think people who want to compete in pve games are just compenstaing for them being bad in pvp games, it’s like a safeway.
But what is wrong with that? If you are reliable enough, and you will be there when needed that’s what coop is about, not how much you did in every moment, but when there was a crucial crysis moment you saved the day.
i do, every time i set my mind toward a goal.
small example, in my pvp days i literally had to increase my kd linearly.
3,5 yesterday as personal best had to be standard of today with tendency toward 4+.
after reaching a certain number i wouldnt quit unless i broke that plateau.
if it meant another hour and 3 cans of whatever, so be it.
but after a certain age it just wasnt maintainable anymore, ironically rather due to lack of time and crappy shifts than reflexes getting worse.
but no matter the circumstances, the mindset keeps on.
now i do agree that if you got a fixed premade, on demand, ready when you are that’d be the best experience of all, though i tend to demand of others what i do of myself.
plus, even if i compete with yesterdays self in darktide, eventually i’ll outplay a good percentage of teammates as an inevitable result.
now the “good competition” literally spills over into general competition.
good example cause the best hunter of the pack got the best pieces in order to keep him fit for the next run.
down the line everyone profited from tasty snout.
ogryn dont care, ogryn want rashuns, best ogryn best rashuns, simple as
if it was by default a given 25% contribution among equals it would be a dream.
but as of today its rather a >75% vs 3x"the rest"
like i’m happy seeing people running circles around me (not the dilusional pseudo-performance jumping into chunks of enemies expecting the team to bust them out) and give me material to learn from or inspire.
and there are good players, plenty.
but lets face it, they are the top 1% for a reason, cause 99% you get “the rest” and a good 70% of the kind that should stick to malice for at least 100 lvls
Him, and his tribe, and his family, etc, his state and skills affects others. We share different types of boundaries that means for us more than our ego. Sure some people are fully selfish, some are selflesness, but most of us are somwhere inbetween.
You don’t earn more plasteel than your mates in DT for carrying, right? Or more and better weapon drops. Everything you collect is shared with others.
Living alone on the isolated island would be perfecet then, cause you are the ultimate winner there, noone can compete with you. Be we just want to flex on others, cause we need a social validation for our achievements.
And people invented medals and other regalia for that. In games we have cosmetics.
It’s a deadend mentality, cause you can’t become the best DT player, there is no end goal rly like in irl solo sports. Like what is the goal then - to become better than 90% of players, well how to measure it? Via achievements and cosmetics? And what after that?
That’s the reason i stopped playing modern competitive shooters with rank matchmaking (aside the fact i suck at them), it’s a hamster wheel, donkey and carrot, etc.
However bashing heretics, saving bros, and being saved sometimes too is just fun cause of process and sharing moments together, not the goal.
I’m not sure what the question is here, if any? But I mean imo the overall balance is in a pretty good place rn. Besides no-one has been able to guaranteed solo for a year now regardless of their skill thanks to the sound bugs.
No matter how well you play, there’s always the chance of a soundless trapper netting you mid-dodge from point blank range without a chance to react. Or some soundless crusher one-shotting you from behind a dead end that had nothing 2 seconds ago.
That’s how I can see that there is a gap between several weapons…
Now I want that Fatshark buff everything to the level of the revolver or a void strike staff.
How many can do that?
I want to see several videos of different players able to solo a maelstrom…
Search youtube with something like “darktide maelstrom true solo”, bunch of them will pop up.
Making a game more difficult, because the top 0.1% or so are currently able to beat the highest difficulty, even with bad teammates, is a terrible idea.
In games like Darktide, individual skill makes a massive difference. For example, being good at the game allows a player to avoid pretty much any damage.
In such a game, the best players will always be able to massively outperform the less skilled, and they will always be able to carry bad teams, unless you artificially put roadblocks in place.
There is no point in doing that.
New players start to play this game. The initial skill level of the average new player stays roughly the same throughout the game’s lifetime.
Let’s assume that more than 90% of players stick with the game for less than 100hrs of playtime. Those players will never surpass a certain skill level.
The vast majority of the playerbase never gets good enough at the game, to come close to carrying a max difficulty mission. They probably won’t even get good enough to carry their own weight on max difficulty.
Meanwhile, there is a small % of players that play for hours every day, and stick with this game for hundreds or even thousands of hours. On top o that, they probably have spent hundreds or thousands of hours, playing similar games before this. They slowly get better and better at the game and think that the game is getting too easy…
No it is not.
Without implementing skill independent roadblocks like unavoidable damage, there is no way to stop those people. Catering to them by adding higher and higher difficulties, would result in the highest difficulties only being played by ~10 players.
Do you expect a competitive person to magically change the way they are, when ever they play a PvE or coop game?
Some people just like to be good at things.
Clearly DT wasnt meant for solo players based on it’s own and community’s insistence of team play/work.
Not a single person can true solo DT. Maybe “true solo” to get to the next spawn point and clutch revive, but not the entire run.
Because the only time a run fails is when the players refuse to work as a team.
Personally, most of the “bad players” I run into absolutely hate working as a team and there is an obvious and major lack of synergy.
as much as i hate thats not me cause i got no permanent way of paid unemployment 
, credits are due for
yes, there’s been patches since and granted zealot does zealot things, still its a solo, no?
and before you say he’s the exception, i’ll send you my bank account (i aint greedy, heating, water, electricity and groceries) and in 3 months time i’ll give you an solo-gryn.
or an overdose, whatever happens first, but all in the name of the emperor 